Unethical comment from doctor.

amother

DarkViolet

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:50 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

Or maybe she did the appropriate research and didn't appreciate being lectured for her decision?

Why assume the bad in people, when the good is a perfectly reasonable alternative?

Not assuming bad- she said she didn’t ask a rav. I’m assuming she has a guilty conscience knowing that she probably should have asked first. Guilty consciences can contribute to someone taking offense for something minor

amother

Peru

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:51 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

He made an assumption about OP that she resented. He's not exactly evil and he shouldn't lose his job. If she doesn't have the guts to tell him over the phone or to his face that she doesn't appreciate the comment, then she has no right reporting him to someone who could make him lose his job.
Yiddishe doctors do so much for our community, they go out of their way for us, and so often do things that technically are against the rules.
My frum doctor, for example gives bc 3 months at a time even though the clinic rules are really to only give one month at a time. She also asked if I had a heter. What do I care? She wouldn't have refused to prescribe if I had no heter. She just maybe wouldn't have gone above and beyond for me. That's her call.
My husband has been trying so hard to get a certain important medication that technically should only be prescribed by a specialist, but the specialist requires him to come in monthly for no reason other than to charge an arm or a leg. No checkup is done at all. We tried with so many doctors until finally a frum doctor went out of his way to help us. He should be gebentched.

So OPs doc made a bad call once. Big deal, what actual harm did he do to OP except for making her feel slightly judged? Tell him how you feel and move on. A little bit of nosiness comes with the territory of having medical professionals who go above and beyond for us. It's not the end of the world.

Let's not go overboard here.

Absolutely wrong.
So so wrong to ask if you have a BC heter.
I feel sorry that you dont see how wrong it is.

My sisters OB asked her if she had a heter?
My sister said nope dont care for one. She had a bad experience and several children..
The dr begged her to get a heter and wrote down the number for a sympathetic Rav on a slip of paper.
The slip of paper promptly made its way to the garbage as soon as she left the room.

It's mind blowing that people are making excuses for these people

amother

Daisy

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:59 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

First of all, giving your doctor an earful is your prerogative, and would be completely appropriate if you feel upset ,as would be choosing to go to another practitioner. Tattling to their superior would not be appropriate for such a minor offense.

Second of all, being told that you don't need a heter IS a heter.

Third, if you would ask the doctor if she has a heter to treat men (genuinely and not to be snarky) and she takes offense and goes ahead and reports you for nosiness, you would feel that she went overboard in her reaction.
Frum doctors are incredible and do so much for us as a whole. They aren't malachim and might very easily say something slightly offensive. Unless they are causing active harm or failing to treat their patients, you don't go reporting them to their bosses.

No, thats not true. Some hold that if both spouses are in agreement, a heter doesn't come even into equation. Its fully permissible from the start. That in itself is not a heter.

Also, there's a difference between reporting to their superiors than contacting the medical board. Letting a superior know that someone didn't treat you appropriately isnt mesirah. Ideally, you should talk to the dr yourself. But not all doctors would be receptive, and not everyone would have the courage to talk directly to the dr. Talking to a superior so that he deals with the situation is an appropriate action.

amother

Daisy

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:02 pm

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Don't think you understood my point. I didnt say its not a viable option. But being lectured when you have taken the time to come to a particular decision is just as a viable option in this situation. So why are you selecting the option to paint someone in a bad light?

Imagine you take the time to research a situation and deal with all what's involved to come to a heavy decision. Now imagine people lecturing you about that decision, when they barely have any details - and weren't even asked for their opinion. Now that would get someone really upset - much more upset than a guilty conscience

singleagain

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:03 pm

amother Steel wrote:

I’m in agreement. It’s like (I know, not exactly like) if someone would post here, “I found fresh raspberries on sale and bought a bunch; anyone have any good recipes to share?”
And someone would say something like, “Are you aware they are known to be heavily infested and there’s really no way to check them?”
Some people would say, “MYOB”, or “That wasn’t the question being asked…”, while others would be grateful to have been informed.

And now I’m waiting for the comment that is sure to come: “How are you comparing a DOCTOR to a FRUIT???”
Which would be missing the point.

The difference between a doctor and fruit is the vulnerability of the patient/poster

amother

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:06 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

Thank you!

amother

Cadetblue

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:10 pm

If you think this is bad, I had a frum doctor in E”Y berating me for asking for birth control, and then when he looked at my chart and realized there was a medical need, he went to ask someone else to write the prescription because he didn’t want it written with his name in case I would go around publicizing that he gave it to me. I was coming to ask for it for 3 months after a very traumatic complicated miscarriage and left feeling like it was the wrong thing to take it. So guess what? I didn’t, got pregnant again, miscarried again, and ended up in the hospital again.
It’s very dangerous when a doctor thinks it’s their job to give a halachic psak, they need to trust that patients ask their own Ravbi.

amother

DarkViolet

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:10 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

I am not painting her in a bad light- I don’t care one way or the other. She asked for opinions as to her reaction to thr dr’s comments. The doctor was wrong, but her reaction was overblown and I guessed at a potential reason. That’s my opinion

amother

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 7:12 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I’m sorry you went through that.

amother

Seablue

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 2:55 pm

I discussed birth control options with a secular Russian doctor in Israel and she said that condoms is one option but the Rabonim usually don't allow it though she can give it to me anyway if that's what I prefer.

I was so uncomfortable. It was really not her place to mention this aspect of Chareidi life.

Honestly, the Rav had not been happy to give me a heter but I decided that I will do what is right for my family and make my own decisions without consulting a Rav again. And there she was talking about Rabonim at a doctors visit.

She meant well but it was not appreciated.

amother

Butterscotch

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 2:59 pm

I don't know the style that he said it in, but I recently went with DH to freeze sperm and we weren't aware that halachically we needed a mashgiach. It was a Jewish dr. and I would have been sooo grateful it the clinic would've mentioned something to me - that this is what is acceptable etc. - obviously not to pressure or coerce, but to inform?? from 1 Yid to another? I would be grateful for the information! No need to get all emotional and mad about it! do what you want, but don't be mad at a fellow Jew wanting to inform you of halachic ramifications! and to inform on him, some people here sound worse than typical anti semites! makes me fume!!!!! and find a different place for your hate agenda!

amother

Seablue

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 2:59 pm

Oh, and when I went to the Tipat chalav app (they take care of vaccinations and baby's health) the woman asked me if I am nursing.

She said I must eat well because women of child bearing age can get pregnant any time.

I said I am not trying to get pregnant now and she asked "why?" and looked at me like I fell from the moon.

She is a typical Chareidi woman that had many babies herself but why is my family planning her business?

Of course I didn't answer.

amother

Dimgray

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 3:19 pm

amother Peru wrote:

My sister had this experience as well. I think a Dr like that should lose their license. She was also strong enough to ignore the Dr but I imagine there were other vulnerable women who were not.

amother

Lemonlime

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 5:47 pm

My Jewish midwife warned me that if I abort baby then I'll likely have nightmares and hallucinations about it. And it's not halachically allowed if baby even had a tiny chance to survive.
I didn't listen to her, I did get a heter through a round about way but she knew what I'd done because it was on record at the hospital Sad

I was embarrassed... And for the record I've bh never had nightmares etc since. If anything I was having nightmares and a very hard time of coming to terms with carrying a very sick fetus.

Your Dr was wrong. Not his place to get involved!

amother

Yolk

Sat, Apr 29 2023, 8:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

Hi. Recently tested positive for the BRCA gene. After discussing the situation with a genetic counselor my husband and I came to the conclusion that he should get tested as well. Although there’s a very small chance for my husband to test positive, if he does then with every baby we have there’s a 25% chance of the baby being born with severe health complications. I’m not sure the medical term but some kind of leukemia is one of the many issues the baby can have.

I've been trying to pinpoint what bothered me about this, and I think it is the point that the OP is so vague about what is involved. She obviously has access to the internet, since she is here, so I would have expected her to do some personal research after the appointment with the genetic counselor.

She is right that when both parents are carriers for the same BRCA mutation there is a 25% risk of each baby conceived having Fanconi's Anaemia. That is not the same as a 25% risk of each child born having it. The vast majority of these foetuses die within the early weeks of pregnancy. (Not that repeated miscarriages are a desirable outcome, either.) The actual statistics are around 1 in 130,000 live births. This is from all mutations causing it, not just the BRCA genes.

Approximately 1 in 40 askenazi Jews carry a BRCA mutation. If the OP's husband is a carrier, there is likely to be some family history. She didn't say anything about that, so we don't know if there is or not, but without family history the risk is much lower.

Fanconi's Anaemia does carry a high risk of leukemia, but the main problem is the failure of the bone marrow to produce an adequate supply of all types of blood cells, obviously leading to multiple other issues.

All of this information can be found in a few minutes on Google. If her husband went to the doctor with the same information that she presented above, it could be that the doctor wondered how much they had really looked into it. Since it is rare enough fir their insurance not to cover it, it's a very large outlay for minimal risk, and he may well have wanted to be sure they had done adequate research before deciding to proceed.