Is there a way to convert an oven to milchigs?

farmom

Mon, May 15 2023, 8:24 pm

zaq wrote:

You don't need to. Unless you don't trust the Star-K?

https://www.star-k.org/article.....vered)%20dairy%20item%20in%20it.&text=It%20is%20not%20necessary%20to,be%20clean)%20to%20cool%20down.

Snippets from this article--it's long:
If a meat oven is clean, one may bake a dry, uncovered (or covered) dairy item in it. It is not necessary to first kasher the oven or wait 24 hours. If one wants to bake a dry, uncovered dairy item immediately after cooking meat, one should first wait for the oven (which must be clean) to cool down.

Yes my rav holds that we don't kasher from milchig to fleishig and vice versa.

In addition, many hold that you have to wait 24 hours before kashering.

Different shitos.

Reality

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:22 pm

amother Gold wrote:

All these rabbonim who say you can never use the same oven for milchigs and fleishigs - ask them how many ovens their grandmothers had.

Don't transpose our food lifestyle on the past. They had zero to one oven and never cooked dairy. They had a completely different food culture.

amother

Seablue

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:23 pm

amother Gold wrote:

All these rabbonim who say you can never use the same oven for milchigs and fleishigs - ask them how many ovens their grandmothers had.

And ask them how they kasher a non kosher hall or a new kitchen that was bought from non-Jews.

amother

Gold

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:27 pm

Reality wrote:

Don't transpose our food lifestyle on the past. They had zero to one oven and never cooked dairy. They had a completely different food culture.

Nonsense. They had ovens and they cooked and baked both milchigs and fleishigs. Sometimes they cooked with schmaltz, sometimes with butter. Pareve was more rare.

gold2

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:28 pm

We do kasher back and forth the whole time but cheesecake might be different, more liquidy equals more steam equals might have to kasher for longer

Just call your local kashrus hotline it will be simple for them to answer you

amother

Acacia

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:28 pm

amother Gold wrote:

Nonsense. They had ovens and they cooked and baked both milchigs and fleishigs. Sometimes they cooked with schmaltz, sometimes with butter. Pareve was more rare.

I think the ovens of today are more problematic to kasher than the ovens of yesteryear.

holylandgirl

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:38 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

And ask them how they kasher a non kosher hall or a new kitchen that was bought from non-Jews.

They hold you can kasher from treif to kosher, but not from meat to milk.
If you don't understand a psak, or your rav holds differently there's really no need to be so disrespectful to rabbonim. I mean assuming you know more is just a bit unreasonable

amother

Gold

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:40 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

I think the ovens of today are more problematic to kasher than the ovens of yesteryear.

Our smooth, nonabsorbent ovens are easier to kasher, not harder.

amother

Acacia

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:48 pm

amother Gold wrote:

Our smooth, nonabsorbent ovens are easier to kasher, not harder.

It doesn't have to to do with the smoothness. It's more about gas vs electricity and the mechanism of the oven. Many hold that some ovens cannot be kashered at all and they need a separate oven for pesach or dairy.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, May 16 2023, 12:48 pm

Every Rav holds differently, really need to ask yours how he holds.
My Rav holds no need to wait 24 hours, just make sure its not filthy and then can easily just turn the oven on to highest temp (550) for 45 minutes.

(Yeshivish)

Reality

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:22 pm

amother Gold wrote:

Nonsense. They had ovens and they cooked and baked both milchigs and fleishigs. Sometimes they cooked with schmaltz, sometimes with butter. Pareve was more rare.

I guess it depends how old your grandparents are otherwise you are the one talking nonsense. My living grandparents are in their 90's. My other grandparents would be over 100.

In the US they had one oven. Not everyone in Europe had an oven. Some only had a cook top. Frum Jews did not bake with butter. Not everyone had access to chalav Yisrael. In the 1970's my father remembers his European grandfather spreading shmaltz on his bread for breakfast. He was fleishigs all day, every day. This was very common among Eastern European Jews.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:24 pm

0url=https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6901419#6901419]Reality[/url] wrote:

Don't transpose our food lifestyle on the past. They had zero to one oven and never cooked dairy. They had a completely different food culture.

never cooked dairy? Why do you think that? Im sure thats not the case.

Reality

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:35 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

never cooked dairy? Why do you think that? Im sure thats not the case.

Not never, but not all the time. They would have hot dairy cereal on the stove top if they had access to chalav Yisrael milk. But have dairy cooked in the oven? It wasn't in their food culture. It wasn't how they cooked.

giftedmom

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:44 pm

Reality wrote:

Really depends on where in Eastern Europe. Most of us are Hungarian in origin. In Hungary many many families lived in villages and had their own livestock. If they didn’t, their neighbors had. Chalav yisrael was a lot more attainable there than in America at the time.

Reality

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:49 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Very good point. My family is American with Lithuanian/Russian roots.

amother

Caramel

Tue, May 16 2023, 2:09 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

never cooked dairy? Why do you think that? Im sure thats not the case.

Their cooking was very different than ours as were their dairy products. Cow's milk was readily available in most places. They would take their own pail to the cow's owner and that's how they always had chalav yisrael. Hot cereal cooked in a pot with milk was common and bread and butter was a staple. Some made their own sour cream and cottage cheese type foods from milk. Baking cheesecake or foods with melted hard cheese like our baked ziti was almost unheard of in most parts of Eastern Europe. A popular food in some areas was a cereal made with corn meal like polenta and people who could afford it melted cheese or butter on top of that.

amother

Gold

Tue, May 16 2023, 2:15 pm

Reality wrote:

My grandparents were born in the 1890s and lived to adulthood in Europe. I knew them well, and they often spoke of their lives growing up. Some of the family came from what's now Poland and Belarus, some from what's now Ukraine and the Czech republic.

Poor as they were, they all had ovens at home. Though post war, in one case, they all put their cholent into the local baker's oven from Friday night to shabbos morning. And then on Sunday, the baker made bread that everyone ate with butter or cheese. (Vishnitz hashgacha, in this case )

amother

Peony

Tue, May 16 2023, 2:25 pm

Reality wrote:

Cheesecake for Shavuos is such a new concept? Guess it’s possible. Maybe they only made blintzes, on the stovetop..