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Forum
-> Fashion and Beauty
PinkFridge
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 Wed, May 17 2023, 8:34 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | Im sorry but the charedi/yeshivish hat that they all wearing is NOT a fedora. The yekim that I know where fedoras, but charedim? Its borselinos or other such hats with much bigger brims than any fedoras ive ever seen. |
Smaller brims are back, though it's the cooler yeshivish who are wearing the smallest.
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PinkFridge
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Wed, May 17 2023, 8:37 am
| Reality wrote: | | And I disagree. The men in my family who wear hats, their hats don't look all that different from d!ck Tracy. And the more stylish ones are wearing a traditional small brimmed fedora. |
And the more yeshivish chassanim get the two-way watch.
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PinkFridge
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Wed, May 17 2023, 8:38 am
| Chickensoupprof wrote: | This, my husband, has old pictures of Jewish life everywhere where the men wear straw hats and he now has a panama straw hat and he wears it the whole summer because Borselinos is according him puur gasmiyus and he jokes that the orignal style wear straw hats 
Oh and my husband wears only suits and white shirts for shabbos and yom tov. He never wears jeans but just normal trousers with a shirt and he has al leather jacket and once he was buying a sefer in a sforim store and they were explaining the sefer to him and he felt judged. He told the seller: 'I'm buying a sefer you know my face you know my family why are you explaining me the sefer and suggest I should have one with English translation?' It became almost torah min har sinai that this is the dress code while it was not and it is not... |
In Shanghai most people did because of the heat.
There is a picture of a great RY in a turtleneck before the war. I don't think it was shita, I think it was poverty and availability.
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Bnei Berak 10
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Wed, May 17 2023, 9:55 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | And the more yeshivish chassanim get the two-way watch. |
What is a two way watch?
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Bnei Berak 10
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Wed, May 17 2023, 10:16 am
| amother OP wrote: | Firstly a colored shirt and any dark pants (even beige) would be just as dignified.
Secondly why do men need to dress like they are visiting dignitaries all the time while women don't? Are you always ready to greet a queen/ king? |
Not so long ago also grey brown navy blue were totally accepted colors. Clothes were far more expensive than today.
The black&white uniform isn't *that* old.
Beige pants IMHO are less formal than dark, it's more seasonal.
Am Israel were worthy of yitziyat Mitzrayim since they didn't change their clothing their names and their language.
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amother
Hyacinth
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Wed, May 17 2023, 10:29 am
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | Not so long ago also grey brown navy blue were totally accepted colors. Clothes were far more expensive than today.
The black&white uniform isn't *that* old.
Beige pants IMHO are less formal than dark, it's more seasonal.
Am Israel were worthy of yitziyat Mitzrayim since they didn't change their clothing their names and their language. |
If we are talking about events and parties, dark pants is more formal. If we are talking about the workplace, then beige and dark pants are considered equally formal.
I dont get how this relates back to yetzias mitrayim. If we are not to change our clothing, why arent we wearing the robes dating back to yetzias mitzrayim? If we are dressing as per the 1900s, we obviously changed up a lot to get to that point. Is the 1900s our new 'yetzias mitrayim' timepoint?
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seven-up
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Wed, May 17 2023, 11:27 am
OP I don't know if this will shed some light but when one of my sons was in 7th grade (yeshivish school) the menahel gave them a shmuez along the lines of: This is bar mitzvah year when you transition from a katan to a gadol/ bachur. The yeshiva will not force you to dress like a bachur (I.e. white buttoned down shirt, black pants.....) we give you permission to continue wearing a polo shirt or colored buttoned down shirt or blue pants (the dress code for the lower grades). But now as you become a bar mitzvah you need to start thinking about the future and who you want to be. Do you want to be like our gedolim, your rabbeim, your menahalim and try your best to live up to their standards even if you aren't perfect and fail sometimes or do you want to be like the secular world and try your best to live up to their standards? The choice is yours. If you dress like our gedolim, you are emulating them and in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like and if you dress like the secular world then you are in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like.
My son had spent the past few months adamantly refusing to wear the white shirt "levush" after bar mitzvah and he would wait till mesivta. Well, after that shmuez my son came home proudly proclaiming that as soon as he became bar mitzvah he only wanted white shirts because he wanted to be like his rabbeim. He went so proudly to yeshiva the first day he wore a white shirt.
So I'm sure there are other reasons but the way you dress helps one to aspire to become like that- like the little boy who walks proudly displaying his little league uniform because he aspires to someday become a major league player.
It is now ten years later and my son, newly married, still proudly wears his rabbeim's levush each and every day and those are his guiding figures in every decision he makes. If our gedolim started wearing red shirts and yellow pants, my son would follow suit because gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem. It is step one in modeling after them. Of course there needs to be more.... learning like they do, midos like they have but levush is major too.
As for women, one of my HS teachers stressed every day how even if we are tight on money and it's hard and we need to cut corners, we should never cut in the area of dress. We need to always look dignified and neat. If we look messy like our clothes not fitting right, being shlumpy or with stains we should change before we go outdoors because we represent malchus. We should always dress more dignified than the current secular trends and more than that when we walk into a store or office with secular people we should stand out as dressing different and not blend in. This made a huge roshem on me and no matter how stressed I am, till this day I check myself in the mirror before going out to make sure I look dignified and refined and that I won't be a confused for a secular person who happens to dress tzniyus. Another teacher told us that if a gadol passed us and we felt embarrassed in any way about our mode of dress, we should not go out like that ever! Hashem is with us always so if we are embarrassed in front of the gadol, kal v'chomer in front of Hashem.
Ok just sharing one more viewpoint here that may help! If you disagree feel free to ignore- this was just what these mechanchim/mechanchos felt.
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asmileaday
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Wed, May 17 2023, 11:33 am
| seven-up wrote: | OP I don't know if this will shed some light but when one of my sons was in 7th grade (yeshivish school) the menahel gave them a shmuez along the lines of: This is bar mitzvah year when you transition from a katan to a gadol/ bachur. The yeshiva will not force you to dress like a bachur (I.e. white buttoned down shirt, black pants.....) we give you permission to continue wearing a polo shirt or colored buttoned down shirt or blue pants (the dress code for the lower grades). But now as you become a bar mitzvah you need to start thinking about the future and who you want to be. Do you want to be like our gedolim, your rabbeim, your menahalim and try your best to live up to their standards even if you aren't perfect and fail sometimes or do you want to be like the secular world and try your best to live up to their standards? The choice is yours. If you dress like our gedolim, you are emulating them and in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like and if you dress like the secular world then you are in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like.
My son had spent the past few months adamantly refusing to wear the white shirt "levush" after bar mitzvah and he would wait till mesivta. Well, after that shmuez my son came home proudly proclaiming that as soon as he became bar mitzvah he only wanted white shirts because he wanted to be like his rabbeim. He went so proudly to yeshiva the first day he wore a white shirt.
So I'm sure there are other reasons but the way you dress helps one to aspire to become like that- like the little boy who walks proudly displaying his little league uniform because he aspires to someday become a major league player.
It is now ten years later and my son, newly married, still proudly wears his rabbeim's levush each and every day and those are his guiding figures in every decision he makes. If our gedolim started wearing red shirts and yellow pants, my son would follow suit because gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem. It is step one in modeling after them. Of course there needs to be more.... learning like they do, midos like they have but levush is major too.
As for women, one of my HS teachers stressed every day how even if we are tight on money and it's hard and we need to cut corners, we should never cut in the area of dress. We need to always look dignified and neat. If we look messy like our clothes not fitting right, being shlumpy or with stains we should change before we go outdoors because we represent malchus. We should always dress more dignified than the current secular trends and more than that when we walk into a store or office with secular people we should stand out as dressing different and not blend in. This made a huge roshem on me and no matter how stressed I am, till this day I check myself in the mirror before going out to make sure I look dignified and refined and that I won't be a confused for a secular person who happens to dress tzniyus. Another teacher told us that if a gadol passed us and we felt embarrassed in any way about our mode of dress, we should not go out like that ever! Hashem is with us always so if we are embarrassed in front of the gadol, kal v'chomer in front of Hashem.
Ok just sharing one more viewpoint here that may help! If you disagree feel free to ignore- this was just what these mechanchim/mechanchos felt. |
I find it so special (and unfortunately rare) that your son's yeshiva encouraged rather than forced.
A decision made from a place of choice usually lasts longer than one that is forced.
Kol hakavod.
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amother
DarkMagenta
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Wed, May 17 2023, 2:17 pm
| gottago wrote: |
Look at a state dinner, or a fancy law firm... most men are wearing dark suits and white shirts, the women have more options but are equally classy and sophisticated. |
Maybe...but most of these people are not dressed that way to buy groceries or take their kids to the playground. And usually not to PTA meetings unless they intend to intimidate. Even Queen Elizabeth, on her vacation estate in Sandringham, wore an old babushka and riding trousers, not a designer gown and a tiara.
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zaq
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Wed, May 17 2023, 2:30 pm
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I'm so glad the yeshivish men are now wearing narrower brims. The outlandishly wide brims of yesteryear were unflattering to all but the tallest of men, not to mention what a pain they were to store. All hail d!ck Tracy and Spencer Tracy!
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amother
Amaranthus
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Wed, May 17 2023, 2:37 pm
| seven-up wrote: | | OP I don't know if this will shed some light but when one of my sons was in 7th grade (yeshivish school) the menahel gave them a shmuez along the lines of: This is bar mitzvah year when you transition from a katan to a gadol/ bachur. The yeshiva will not force you to dress like a bachur (I.e. white buttoned down shirt, black pants.....) we give you permission to continue wearing a polo shirt or colored buttoned down shirt or blue pants (the dress code for the lower grades). But now as you become a bar mitzvah you need to start thinking about the future and who you want to be. Do you want to be like our gedolim, your rabbeim, your menahalim and try your best to live up to their standards even if you aren't perfect and fail sometimes or do you want to be like the secular world and try your best to live up to their standards? The choice is yours. If you dress like our gedolim, you are emulating them and in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like and if you dress like the secular world then you are in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like. |
While this is positive for the boys who were ok with this, for those boys that were not ready to dress like their rabbeim, and kept on wearing polo shirts, they must have felt awful to be made to feel like "the secular world".
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amother
Emerald
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Wed, May 17 2023, 2:46 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | In Shanghai most people did because of the heat.
There is a picture of a great RY in a turtleneck before the war. I don't think it was shita, I think it was poverty and availability. |
Interestingly, if you look at pictures of American Yeshiva bachurim in European yeshivas (such as Mir, Kletzk, etc) before WWII, you see they were wearing light colored suits and hats. Many went on to become the Roshei Yeshiva and Rabbonim of our generation (or your parents’ generation-depending on your age).
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amother
Emerald
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Wed, May 17 2023, 2:51 pm
| Reality wrote: | | I don't know why you keep on saying chareidim don't wear fedoras. Chassidim have their own hats but yeshivish men wear fedoras. |
Right. Fedoras come in various brim sizes. Call the wide brimmed ones Mafia-style fedoras if you will, but they’re still fedoras. Not that it even matters!
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amother
Daylily
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Wed, May 17 2023, 3:14 pm
| seven-up wrote: | OP I don't know if this will shed some light but when one of my sons was in 7th grade (yeshivish school) the menahel gave them a shmuez along the lines of: This is bar mitzvah year when you transition from a katan to a gadol/ bachur. The yeshiva will not force you to dress like a bachur (I.e. white buttoned down shirt, black pants.....) we give you permission to continue wearing a polo shirt or colored buttoned down shirt or blue pants (the dress code for the lower grades). But now as you become a bar mitzvah you need to start thinking about the future and who you want to be. Do you want to be like our gedolim, your rabbeim, your menahalim and try your best to live up to their standards even if you aren't perfect and fail sometimes or do you want to be like the secular world and try your best to live up to their standards? The choice is yours. If you dress like our gedolim, you are emulating them and in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like and if you dress like the secular world then you are in essence saying this is who you aspire to be like.
My son had spent the past few months adamantly refusing to wear the white shirt "levush" after bar mitzvah and he would wait till mesivta. Well, after that shmuez my son came home proudly proclaiming that as soon as he became bar mitzvah he only wanted white shirts because he wanted to be like his rabbeim. He went so proudly to yeshiva the first day he wore a white shirt.
So I'm sure there are other reasons but the way you dress helps one to aspire to become like that- like the little boy who walks proudly displaying his little league uniform because he aspires to someday become a major league player.
It is now ten years later and my son, newly married, still proudly wears his rabbeim's levush each and every day and those are his guiding figures in every decision he makes. If our gedolim started wearing red shirts and yellow pants, my son would follow suit because gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem. It is step one in modeling after them. Of course there needs to be more.... learning like they do, midos like they have but levush is major too.
As for women, one of my HS teachers stressed every day how even if we are tight on money and it's hard and we need to cut corners, we should never cut in the area of dress. We need to always look dignified and neat. If we look messy like our clothes not fitting right, being shlumpy or with stains we should change before we go outdoors because we represent malchus. We should always dress more dignified than the current secular trends and more than that when we walk into a store or office with secular people we should stand out as dressing different and not blend in. This made a huge roshem on me and no matter how stressed I am, till this day I check myself in the mirror before going out to make sure I look dignified and refined and that I won't be a confused for a secular person who happens to dress tzniyus. Another teacher told us that if a gadol passed us and we felt embarrassed in any way about our mode of dress, we should not go out like that ever! Hashem is with us always so if we are embarrassed in front of the gadol, kal v'chomer in front of Hashem.
Ok just sharing one more viewpoint here that may help! If you disagree feel free to ignore- this was just what these mechanchim/mechanchos felt. |
I disagree with this on so many levels.
Making it a black and white issue that you can either be "like the gedolim" or "a secular person" is very damaging, particularly to young boys who will be growing up in becoming part of communities where many, many men DO NOT dress like "gedolim" yet are fine, upstanding Jews. One can be a great person without dressing "like a gadol".
Aside from that, the statement "gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem" is very dangerous, and this is a perfect example as to why. Just because a gadol wears a white shirt and dark pants does not make it ratzon Hashem. There's a slippery slope once we start attaching everything a particular person (no matter how great) does to being "ratzon Hashem", it can have disastrous results. Of course, our gedolim are great people who are in tune with high levels of spirituality, and we should learn from them as much as we can. But let's get one thing clear: wearing white shirts is NOT the "ratzon Hashem", no matter how many gedolim may be wearing them.
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zaq
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Wed, May 17 2023, 4:11 pm
| cbsp wrote: | | Díck Tracy reference |
How did you manage to post Mr. Tracy's nickname without that prissy imamother censor "correcting" it the way it did mine?
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zaq
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Wed, May 17 2023, 4:12 pm
| amother Daylily wrote: | I disagree with this on so many levels.
Making it a black and white issue that you can either be "like the gedolim" or "a secular person" is very damaging, particularly to young boys who will be growing up in becoming part of communities where many, many men DO NOT dress like "gedolim" yet are fine, upstanding Jews. One can be a great person without dressing "like a gadol".
Aside from that, the statement "gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem" is very dangerous, and this is a perfect example as to why. Just because a gadol wears a white shirt and dark pants does not make it ratzon Hashem. There's a slippery slope once we start attaching everything a particular person (no matter how great) does to being "ratzon Hashem", it can have disastrous results. Of course, our gedolim are great people who are in tune with high levels of spirituality, and we should learn from them as much as we can. But let's get one thing clear: wearing white shirts is NOT the "ratzon Hashem", no matter how many gedolim may be wearing them. |
Hear, hear!
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amother
Hyacinth
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Wed, May 17 2023, 4:13 pm
| amother Daylily wrote: | I disagree with this on so many levels.
Making it a black and white issue that you can either be "like the gedolim" or "a secular person" is very damaging, particularly to young boys who will be growing up in becoming part of communities where many, many men DO NOT dress like "gedolim" yet are fine, upstanding Jews. One can be a great person without dressing "like a gadol".
Aside from that, the statement "gedolei yisroel=daas torah=ratzon Hashem" is very dangerous, and this is a perfect example as to why. Just because a gadol wears a white shirt and dark pants does not make it ratzon Hashem. There's a slippery slope once we start attaching everything a particular person (no matter how great) does to being "ratzon Hashem", it can have disastrous results. Of course, our gedolim are great people who are in tune with high levels of spirituality, and we should learn from them as much as we can. But let's get one thing clear: wearing white shirts is NOT the "ratzon Hashem", no matter how many gedolim may be wearing them. |
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I take issue with using externals as a means to measure. How can we equate clothing as a means of connection to a gadol.? We should follow their actions, their shared thoughts, but clothing? If you dress like a gadol, how does that make you a better person?
Personally, using externals in such manner is an affront to actual yiddishkeit. It speaks to the tafel, not the ikur and displaces our priorities.
What you choose to dress yourself with is meaningless. You can be wearing a white shirt to emulate a gadol but your internals can be very questionable. You can be wearing colored shirts and no hats, but your internals are something to be proud of.
Clothing styles have zero to do with yiddishkeit.
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Bnei Berak 10
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Wed, May 17 2023, 4:17 pm
| amother DarkMagenta wrote: | | Maybe...but most of these people are not dressed that way to buy groceries or take their kids to the playground. And usually not to PTA meetings unless they intend to intimidate. Even Queen Elizabeth, on her vacation estate in Sandringham, wore an old babushka and riding trousers, not a designer gown and a tiara. |
It's called being correctly dressed for the occasion at vacation. Old babushka, you mean a scarf tied under the chin? If yes then I'm sure it was not an old shmatte.
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Reality
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Wed, May 17 2023, 4:18 pm
| zaq wrote: | | How did you manage to post Mr. Tracy's nickname without that prissy imamother censor "correcting" it the way it did mine? |
Look at her "I". She used a letter that isn't in the English alphabet so she tricked the censor.
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