iran and nukes | Imamother

mama-star

Wed, Jul 09 2008, 2:28 pm

here's a link from msnbc.com about iran and their nuclear program:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25596779/

if you notice on the left there is a video clip about pres. ahmadinijad. (interestingly enough produced by "baruch ben-chorin.") anyway, in the video, ahmadinijad says something like, "how dare the US complain about our nuclear program when the US has nukes and they have already used them against people!"

now I am by no means a fan of ahmadinijad, but I think that comment has some merit. what do you think?

freidasima

Wed, Jul 09 2008, 2:44 pm

Huh? the US used nuclear weapons twice, within three days, one time in history, to end the second world war. They have never been used since, and act as a deterrent for war. They were actually worked on by Nazi Germany to be used against the free world and only because there were scientists (many Jewish) who were forced to leave Germany and other countries because of antisemitism, was the USA capable of creating such a program and creating atomic weapons towards the end of the war.

The united States is and was a democracy which during the second world war entered the war in order to fight Fascism and dictatorship that had (1) started the war and (2) was in the process of killing millions of people due to an ideology, among which were six million Jews. Although the use of nuclear weapons to end the war at that time was a matter of great debate, the decision was made to do so in order to save the lives of millions of people under Japanese rule and to save the lives of American servicemen fighting in the pacific, because otherwise the Japanese would have continued the war and caused many more deaths than the numbers killed by the bombs in hiroshima and nagasaki.

Again, since that time nuclear weapons have never been used by the USA nor have they used chemical or biological weapons. Just the opposite, they have signed a non proliferation treaty and have diminished stockpiles of such weapons. The weapons were held as a deterrent to make sure that other powers who wished to destroy the democratic way of life and institute dictatorships, would not be able to vanquish the united states.

However, there lies the difference between having and using. Achmadinejad yimach shemo has already said that his goal is to wipe out Israel - the only democracy in the middle east - for religious and ideological reasons. His having such weapons will make his self proclaimed goal easier.

There is no relativisim for us, although there is such a school of thought. In the general geographical neighborhood in which I live, called the Middle East, either you are sure of your being right and are willing to do a lot to keep yourself alive, like we do in E"Y...or....you are dead.

mama-star

Wed, Jul 09 2008, 4:26 pm

freidasima, the history lesson was unnecessary (and I want to be clear, I don't say that unkindly). the point is, we have nukes. other countries have nukes. is it right for a country with nuclear weapons to tell another country, "no not for you, only for us." ...?

I am not discussing the "morality" of using the bomb. I understand when and why the US used the bomb - no need to reiterate that. I understand iran is a threat to israel - no need to reiterate that point either. there is no need to tell me ahmadinijad is a "bad guy." I don't care for him and I think I made that clear.

despite our reduction of nuclear weapons, the bottom line is, we still have them. others do too. again, I ask, is it fair for some to have and others not? how does that add up?

mimivan

Wed, Jul 09 2008, 8:23 pm

I like you OP, but I can't believe this thread. I'm sorry.

I know this is just an evaluation of his "logic" but I'm living in the middle of Eretz Yisroel and cannot be so cool-headed about it. I don't care about his logic. Does he win a prize for using sound logic? The Germans weren't capable of cold-blooded logic at times? "We don't like the Jews. They are in our way. Therefore, one way to get rid of them is to exterminate them r'l"...sound logic eh...?

I just want my family and myself not to die. I don't need to evaluate his remarks, logical or not.

mimivan

Wed, Jul 09 2008, 8:41 pm

Oh mama-star...I've made myself a cup of coffee and have calmed down now and am thinking about this thread. Perhaps you may be thinking (as I might be) how can we convince the world that what this guy is doing is wrong when he points to the U.S. and its use of bombs? (notice he actually makes the analogy that the U.S. used the bombs..which says to me, chas v'shalom he wants to use them too.)

First of all, the U.S. did not go to the trouble of developing a bomb just to bomb a specific country off the map the way Iran openly threatens to, a country which has not attacked Iran and with whom Iran is not yet officially at war. The difference is the U.S. bombed Japan, which was an aggressor nation, but Iran is the aggressor nation who wants to destroy Israel merely because it exists...

Okay, enough differences?