Found $ on the street

groovy1224

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:26 pm

Come on, OP. Give it back. The woman mopped, scrubbed, and cleaned toilets all day for a little over $100. No one does that kind of job for funsies. She needs this money.
$100 goes much further for her than it would for whatever organization you were planning on donating it to.

notshanarishona

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:28 pm

You might not be obligated but it’s definitely the right thing to do (to return it).
She worked hard for it, she gave identifying symbols, imagine the chillul Hashem if the cleaning lady finds out that it wasn’t returned to her because she isn’t Jewish. Once you publicly told people you found it , the right thing to do is return it.

amother

Hydrangea

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:32 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

And imagine how she will treat her Jewish employers in the future, in such a situation...

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:45 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

Op, I have to say, you are really being foolish.

Let's consider a few things. Had you simply found loose money on the street and asked a shaila, I'm pretty sure the psak would have been that you can keep it. However......

YOU POSTED IT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHAT!

So you were looking to go above and beyond and do the right thing and return it. Now you know the rightful owner. What are horrible chillul hashm it would be for you to keep the money at this point when the person who lost the money as well as others are aware that you found their lost hard earned cash.

Return it.

I posted it since I obviously would return it to a jewish person
But since it a [gentile] that doesn't even know if it was found..

BH Yom Yom

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:45 pm

Returning the money is the yashar, kind, menschlich thing to do, and will make a huge kiddush Hashem. OP, imagine the zechuyos you will bring to Klal Yisroel by being mekadesh sheim shomayim in this way, and how this act of tov may protect our nation during the nine days (which have a track record of being a time of din). We want Hashem to go lifnim mishuras hadin for us even if we don’t deserve it (and He therefore doesn’t “have to” but we ask for it anyway). Mah hu rachum, af atah tehay rachum.

You may not technically “have to” return the money based on whatever you shared with the Rav, but it would only be to the benefit of Klal Yisroel if you do return it.

On that note - did you tell the Rav specifically that you posted on the neighborhood chat and that your neighbor saw your post and responded to it saying the money most likely belongs to her cleaning lady? If not I would say ask the shaila again, making this clear.

IIRC R’ Shimon ben Shetach (?) bought a donkey from a non-Jew and later discovered that a jewel had been tied around the donkey’s neck. He returned the jewel to the non-Jew even though he wasn’t mechuyav to and made a tremendous kiddush sheim shomayim.

Please return the money, OP. It’s worth it.

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:47 pm

On that note - did you tell the Rav specifically that you posted on the neighborhood chat and that your neighbor saw your post and responded to it saying the money most likely belongs to her cleaning lady? If not I would say ask the shaila again, making this clear.

[/quote]

Yes the rav knows this

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:48 pm

DrMom wrote:

Why on earth did you post that you found money if you had no intention of returning it to the person who lost it? Wasn't that the whole point?

I would 100% return it if a yid called me
But since it was a non jew and halacha dictated that I dont have too..

amother

Hydrangea

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would 100% return it if a yid called me
But since it was a non jew and halacha dictated that I dont have too..

Did you ask only what you are OBLIGATED to do, or what is the Lifnim Mishuras Hadin, best way to act?

(There is a concept of a Naval Birshus HaTorah, someone who is technically following the obligations of the Torah, but is not looked upon highly to say the least.)

amother

Papayawhip

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would 100% return it if a yid called me
But since it was a non jew and halacha dictated that I dont have too..

Oy, this is such twisted thinking. Please return it. Why are you so adamant not to? What did this poor cleaning lady do to you to deserve this? Please have some compassion and return it, it's probably a bigger mitzvah than giving the money to tzedaka.
Imagine you work all day and you lose your pay, someone finds it and refuses to return it. How'd you feel about that?

DrMom

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would 100% return it if a yid called me
But since it was a non jew and halacha dictated that I dont have too..

I understand, but I think you are being very "rosh katan" about this.

This is somebody's hard-earned salary. Somebody who may live paycheck to paycheck. Where is your compassion?

Also, think about your relationship with your neighbor.

Be kind. Return the money and do a kiddush Hashem.

groovy1224

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would 100% return it if a yid called me
But since it was a non jew and halacha dictated that I dont have too..

Rachel imeinu was not OBLIGATED to give her sister her secret signs..she had compassion and did it anyway.

Have a heart. There's Torah precedent for it.

amother

Hydrangea

Fri, Jul 21 2023, 12:01 am

OP, whether or not you care about the specific non-Jew in question (which I would argue you should), returning the money will be of benefit to Jews, even more so than giving it to tzedakah.

I'm going to assume that this non-Jewish woman is a decent cleaner.

If her money is not returned, and she finds out about it, she will likely be justifiably angry and either do a poorer job of working or rationalize things like stealing small items from her Jewish employer, since Jews aren't that honest either. That will hurt a Jewish person directly.

Even if she doesn't find out, her bad feelings about losing her paycheck will probably come out in how she works, meaning that all of her employers will end up suffering. That will also hurt a Jewish person.

While if you do give it back, she will be happy (do a better job working), and notice the Kiddush Hashem (be more impressed by Jews and presumably more likely to be honest with them). This is an actual benefit to a Jewish person.

If you still feel bad about the money for tzedakah, how about you give up something from yourself, and maybe push off a few manicures or shaitel wash and sets and donate that to tzedakah instead of the cleaning lady's money?

WhatFor

Fri, Jul 21 2023, 12:02 am

naomi2 wrote:

I don't understand your commitment to halacha but not compassion. The Rav didn't tsay you must not give it back. He said you may. Why on earth would you choose not to?

Assuming this is legit, this could make sense if someone has an issue with very rigid thinking and struggles with empathy. Still doesn't explain why she posted the question here though.

OP, have you ever worked very hard for money? Imagine if at the end of the day, you were paid in a single, unmarked 100 dollar bill. Imagine you needed that money to feed yourself or your children. Imagine you dropped it while walking, and while retracing your steps, there's a bochur there with the 100 dollar bill. Imagine he tells you that halachically he's not obligated to return it because it's unmarked, and even though it may be yours, there's no way to prove that it's actually the one you lost. Maybe you lost yours elsewhere and he found a different one. Imagine he says he'd rather donate the 100 dollars to his yeshiva than give it back. Imagine, that he was technically right from a halachic perspective. What kind of person do you think this is?

Just because you're not halachically obligated to do something, you won't do it, even if it's the mentchlich thing to do?

Perhaps my bigger question is, OP, what value are you upholding by refusing to return wages to a poor cleaning woman?

ysydmom

Fri, Jul 21 2023, 12:07 am

OP I think you need the money which is why you are keeping it. Something must be going on financially on your end because if you were financially secure you wouldn't keep the money.

Two thoughts I have is 1. maybe we can all contribute this $100 back to your Jewish neighbor and cleaning lady

2. this is a test from above please pass it and return the money.

this is more of an ethical issue than a Torah issue.

Yes according to Torah you can keep it but it is more important to be ethical sometimes.

What lesson does it teach your family if you keep it?

What if the cleaning lady or the Jewish Lady she works for decides to call the cops because you stole her money?

What is the point of keeping this unearned money that you found that you know belongs to someone else?

Do you want to constantly fight with your neighbor? Every time she sees you it will leave both of you with a bad feeling.

Take the higher road OP and you will see much merit from this. It is your day in "court" you get to decide if you should listen to your yetzer tov or yetzer hara

Please choose wisely. .....

WhatFor

Fri, Jul 21 2023, 12:08 am

amother OP wrote:

I posted it since I obviously would return it to a jewish person
But since it a [gentile] that doesn't even know if it was found..

This doesn't answer why you posted the question on imamother. You literally asked everyone what you should do. Everyone is answering the exact same thing and you're just arguing with them.

If this isn't legit and you just need attention, there's no shame in starting a thread saying that you want to be acknowledged and need attention. Knowing this site, it's quite likely people will respond to you. There's no need to go about it in a way that makes frum women look like heartless thieves. And if this is legit, maybe internalize what everyone is saying instead of just arguing.