Rachel seeing potential in Rabbi Akiva

amother

Sat, Jul 22 2023, 10:57 pm

How did she originally see the potential in him?
Was this just a good eye, ie she'd see potential in anyone? Was it something specific she saw in him? What?

gottago

Sat, Jul 22 2023, 11:22 pm

The Gemara asks this question and answers that she saw Akiva's tznius.

Obviously not knees and elbows. She saw his middah of tznius. That he had an internal world and that he was in touch with himself and HKBH.
She knew that with this outlook, he could become great.

amother

Slategray

Sat, Jul 22 2023, 11:41 pm

I took this lesson last week and did my own work because if it.
My DH is out of a job and I gave him the space to find his niche and decide what he wants to do next.
I listened to the story of Rochel aishes Akiva, that her special zchus was that she encouraged (pushed) her DH to pursue (learning, and he became big) at age 40.
My DH is the same age and I encouraged him to learn a new trade so that he could start a career and build himself up, hopefully for many years to come...

amother

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 12:03 am

gottago wrote:

Thank you!
Curious why someone's good middos and his anava mean he'll be a scholar? To the extent that she sent him away for 12 years?

amother

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 12:04 am

amother Slategray wrote:

Kol hakavod! You are a true aishes chayil!

LisaS

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 12:17 am

When you look at Rabbi Akiva's discussions with others in the Talmud, whether with other rabbis or gentiles, he has a unique way of making his case clear while being respectful of the other side. He goes to the other person's viewpoint, and from there makes his proof.

He was also able to handle much adversity, embarrassment, poverty, etc.

amother

Blue

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 12:29 am

amother Slategray wrote:

Wow, that’s so nice!! IM”YH your husband should have a long and successful career.

amother

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 12:52 am

LisaS wrote:

Right.
But what did Rochel see that would justify sending him for 12 years?
How did she know he has the potential to be a scholar? Maybe he was just a wonderful kind sensitive man, only of a kind, but not a scholar?

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 7:18 am

I still can’t understand did they have kids or she sent him off right away , why get married not to have a family I’m
So confused?

June

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 8:34 am

He didn't go right away. She didn't marry him planning to send him off.

He remained a shepherd after they were married and then (whether it was a result of marrying a tzadika like Rachel or on his own initiative) he went to the melamed to learn how to read.

He was frustrated because it was so hard, and that's when the story happened where one day while he was tending his sheep, he saw water dripping on a rock had bored a hole right through the stone. And he inferred from there that if water, which is soft, can have such an impact on hard rock, surely the words of Torah, which are sharp, can penetrate his brain.

That's when he made the decision, with his wife's encouragement, to go to the great yeshiva in Lud (I think?) to learn Torah.

They had their kids before he left; she raised her kids alone.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 8:41 am

gottago wrote:

Yes. People are multifaceted. He did have a thing against rabbis but evidently his middos were very good.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 23 2023, 8:46 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank you!
Curious why someone's good middos and his anava mean he'll be a scholar? To the extent that she sent him away for 12 years?

It could be that he was quite bright in other ways but an am ha'eretz re Torah. Maybe she sensed that right the right guidance he could reach the stars.

I would say that contemporary advice is not to buy a fixer-upper. I wonder what her options were, the full of themselves arrogant sons of landowners. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't engage in creative medrash. But I'll just say, that from the details we DO know, it's not a trick we should encourage our kids to try at home.

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:29 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Yes. People are multifaceted. He did have a thing against rabbis but evidently his middos were very good.

So you're saying she married him for his Middos NOT for his potential in Torah?

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:30 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I'd assume her father could support one of the great Talmidei Chachamim

However you look at it, it's a very interesting story

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

So you're saying she married him for his Middos NOT for his potential in Torah?

I don't know exactly what she saw. I just mentioned something I think I remembered learning about Rabbi Akiva.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Tue, Jul 25 2023, 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'd assume her father could support one of the great Talmidei Chachamim

There's a lot we don't know.

amother

PlumPink

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:23 pm

Kalba savua, her father was very rich and he wanted her to marry a Talmid chacham.
Their worker, a shepherd, hated talmidai chachamim, he said that if he sees one he will bite him like a donkey.
And that’s who Rachel chose to marry.

Because she sensed that he had a lot of potential and if they marry she will encourage him to reach that potential.
And he only said that about the chachamim because he thought that they looked down at him for being a am haaretz.

But when she married him her father made a neder that he’s kicking her out of his home and life
Years Later, he asked rabbi Akiva to annul his neder (not knowing that the big Rabbi he’s talking to is his son in law, his former worker the shepherd!).

This is what we learned in kindergarten (many years ago, someone please correct me if I made any mistakes recounting this amazing story:)

amother

Brickred

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 10:05 pm

She believed in him and trusted him. You don’t have to see to believe. He could’ve really not been cut out to be a Talmid Chachim but believing in someone has a huge power to literally change reality.