Do you believe in the supporting?

amother

Silver

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 8:35 pm

I
Chassidish yeshivish here. I was supported and we are still Lou b a dependent lifestyle.
I wish it was acceptable for the boys in my circle to have a “fach in hant” and be financially stable before dating. 🤷‍♀️

Highstrung

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 8:36 pm

I don’t have the means to support so I won’t be able to and my kids know that and go out to work to earn a living before marriage . But even so , if we do have the means , then it would be my pleasure to help them financially as much as possible so that they don’t have to struggle until they work their way up financially. Also , my dream is to have the money to purchase each of my children their own home , even if they are doing well.

amother

Steel

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 8:41 pm

I wasnt supported because my parents lost their money before I got married, and as hard as it was in the beginning, it set us up to a financially secure future because we both worked our a**es off to make ends meet. We, as well as all of my siblings, eventually made it in our respective feilds. The only one that didn't make it was the oldest sibling that was supported for a nice amount of years. This sibling is still struggling financially all those years later because of this.

We're chassidish if that matters.

amother

Obsidian

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 8:47 pm

In theory, I don't really believe in it. I believe that if a young man and woman are old enough to get married, they should be old enough to support themselves.
At the same time, I do believe that having a young man stay in learning as long as he is able to, is a worthy and beautiful thing, and whoever can support such a family has a huge zechus.
The fact that this became the norm is due to gedolim having come out to say that this ideal is not just for the select few, but that today it should be the standard for all frum peiple to at least start out their married lives with a Torah foundation.
Of course the idea is that these young couples should live a frugal and Torah centered lifestyle.
The problem has become that kollel became so accepted, that everyone was in on it, but at the same time those who have money want to continue that lifestyle as well. If it sound like it is a contradiction in terms- it is. There have been examples of Torah and gedula bemakom echad throughout history. But those were very exceptional cases.

Now. The question is, what about a non learning family. They have a son or daughter who is in college. Do they not support their kids in the beginning?
Our kids are not equipped to support themselves in this day and age.

agreer

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 8:55 pm

I believe in supporting I.e. helping out your children if you have the means.

I think any generous and loving parent would want to help their children, especially if they want them to get married before they have a means of support, as many in our community do.

I don't think it matters if the children are in learning or college or whatnot. If they are actively encouraged to get married before having a job, their parents should support them till they can support themselves.

However, I think that parents that do not have the means should not support or feel pressure to support. That should be a very valid option, which unfortunately I don't think it is.

amother

Natural

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:08 pm

No it's ridiculous that one parent is expected to support so many grown children. Nobody supported me at all and I have no desire to support my kids. I hope to gift them what I can but I don't want to be committed to anything or feel like I owe them something.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:21 pm

There is very little choice today. The girls that are not being supported are either:

1. Marrying working boys
2. Marrying learning boys but take the yolk of parnasa on themselves. This requires a lot of perseverance, being mitapek b’muat, and is not always feasible.

I hope to help my kids when they get married, but with limitations (a specific budget, no unlimited credit card, and with an expiration date if I commit to something). Once that year or years (depending on the child) passes I would hope, if Hashem enables me, to give them extra cash when I can (birthdays, YT, simchos etc). It would bring me so much joy.

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:23 pm

I didn't submit a vote because it's complicated.

I think that any young couple considering marriage should also be considering their ability to be financially viable without support - it is presumably the ideal for them to be able to live WITHOUT help.

I also think it's nice if parents want and are able to help.

But I do not think the system where young couple's do not work and expect their parents to support kavish lifestyles is a healthy one.

I do understand that some communities have a shared goal for the husband to learn Torah for at least the first year, and I think that's lovely - those communities should then be raising their daughters to earn money, and there should also be an agreement as to what will happen after the first year.

I think it's VERY important that a man be able to earn income and support his family for the most part, as wives almost inevitably become occupied with babies, and it seems unfair to expect them to do ... literally everything except learn Torah.

On the other hand, as a wife whose husband doesn't care about learning Torah, I definitely see the value is supporting your husband's Torah learning.

So ... it's complicated🙃

amother

DarkRed

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:25 pm

amother Obsidian wrote:

Now. The question is, what about a non learning family. They have a son or daughter who is in college. Do they not support their kids in the beginning?
Our kids are not equipped to support themselves in this day and age.

This difference is that they are supporting the children so that the children can become economically independent and able to earn a living to support their family.

amother

Lightyellow

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:29 pm

In the world where there is financial support for the early years of marriage, there are often younger couples getting married.

In secular society today, the age of marriage is now close to 30. Of course both partners are more independent!

I believe that supporting a young man in learning brings tremendous schar -- but at the same time, it's important that everyone understand that the ultimate goal is financial independence, and that support won't go on forever.

My DD ended up with a good enough career that they asked to start supporting themselves sooner than originally planned, and used the remainder of the money we had committed to in support as a chunk of the down payment on a house.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:32 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

What choice is there?

In our culture children are married off when they are practically still toddlers. We can’t expect them to support themselves right from the start.

What a twisted system

What? Why would you be ok with toddlers getting married? Or practically toddlers?

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:40 pm

I got married at 20 dh was 22. The first few months I was working and he was unemployed ( still upset about it) and we were not supported. We managed just fine with only my salary 3k a month.
I do not plan to support my children but I would like to help give them things like food (I order wholesale) stroller, paying for bris etc. but that’s because I like giving presents.
My oldest isn’t five yet so it’s long way to go

Ema of 5

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:47 pm

I don’t believe in supporting. I believe in helping out. Ideally one shouldn’t be getting married until they can support themself. I have no issue with parents helping out, but I don’t think they should be covering all expenses.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:57 pm

Nope. And I believe this is a big reason for the "shidduch crisis" Compared to 30 years ago, there was not much of a Kollel Lifetstyle. We all worked, no parental support and there was no such thing as a crisis. There was no "age gap" issues. I knew so many people that married guys 10 years older themselves.
I mean if a parent has 7 kids, are they expected to support all 7 marrieds??
Don't get me wrong, my marrieds are in kollel, but I am not supporting them and do not have the means to.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:59 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

What choice is there?

In our culture children are married off when they are practically still toddlers. We can’t expect them to support themselves right from the start.

What a twisted system

Age doesn't matter if the boys are supposed to stay in yeshiva at least till marriage, if not longer. I think that boys should be encouraged to get a job right away. My fervent wish is that my children should make their own parnasa. It's such a bracha.
My parents and in laws married off many kids, non were supported. We all manage on our own bh.
I think it's only a thing in yeshivish circles and I think that it's a major reason for the shidduch crisis.
Though I do think that if the father of a girl only wants a long term learner for his girls, he needs to support it.