Was she obligated to tell me?

amother

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 11:45 pm

This happened a while ago but it was such a close call that I still wonder about it today. I was in charge of helping place an order for a special treat for the staff members of a large preschool. I communicated to the caterer making the treats what we wanted and that it should be cholov Yisrael and someone above me took over after that to discuss more details and payment.

On the day of the event, I tasted the treat and noticed that it had a different taste and realized that it was made with almond milk. I immediately thought of one of our subs who was in that day who was anaphylactic due to severe tree nut allergies and called her to warn her. She said she was about to take a bite. She was very grateful for the warning.

Now - I did not tell the caterer that we specifically needed nut free because we don't have other staff members allergic. But at the same time, I assumed that when I ordered CY, it was understood that we specifically wanted dairy. She told me at a later date that she made the treat with almond milk bc she didn't have any CY milk.

Should she have asked me about it before replacing it with something different? I mean, she didn't know whether or not we had allergies amongst the staff. It happens to be there are NO nut allergies amongst our daily staff or I would have for sure specified the importance of no nuts. And it's also a preschool where it's likely that there are kids with nut allergies (there are, but not airborne).

groovy1224

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 11:57 pm

Even if the product had been dairy CY, it could have contained tree nut derivatives. Since you didn't inquire about that aspect, she probably assumed it was not an issue.

Would it have been nice if she said something? Yes. Should you have mentioned it though, in advance? Also yes. Should someone with a severe allergy ensure a food item is safe to eat before taking a bite? Triple yes.

So it seems mistakes were made all around.

amother

Apple

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 6:34 am

amother Oleander wrote:

It would be nice for the bakery to go out of their way and discuss nut allergies with every customer. But this one was on you. And, as another poster said, I’m surprised at the person who has the allergy being so careless.

Also surprised that someone allergic, and anaphalctic no less, Ate so carelessly. The people I know with even less severe reactions are careful, like kashrus. I know a few people who just do not eat cakes and such in public events, even if it "looks" OK.

My dds friend who is allergic to nuts and dairy only has slush in the ice cream store. I asked why not parve ice cream and she said cross contamination from nuts.

Really, especially for an adult this is their responsibility, and even on them to understand that mistakes happen and be cautious.

So no, nor on caterer to tell you gir nut allergies.

HOWEVER, it is on caterer to give you what you purchased. Nothing to do with allergies. Parve and milchig are not the same taste /quality / cost. Op waa able to taste the difference, right! and if you ordered something milchig not ok to sub with parve without asking and alerting you to the substitutuon.

salt

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 6:36 am

amother Oleander wrote:

This.
She should be more careful about eating non-packaged food items whose ingredients are unknown.
Any kind of treats or desserts could be made with nuts.

amother

Apple

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:09 am

amother OP wrote:

I didn't want to be too specific but maybe this would clarify things more. The treat was iced coffee. As it was given out, the staff members were told "Everyone can have it- it's cholov yisroel". I would imagine that's why the allergic staff member didn't think to do more checking after that.

Again, it's on her to verify. Maybe almond flavoring was put in.

I'd be more annoyed that I ordered milchig iced coffee and got parve at a basic level. As you noticed it is NOT the same taste.

amother

Apple

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:36 am

happy7 wrote:

If I wanted milchig ice coffee, and paid for milchig, I would be upset that I got pareve. And yes, if something that you expect to be dairy and nut free, like ice coffee, actually had almond milk, it is important to tell people

For the record, my ice coffee recipe has almond extract in it.

I would never assume anything to be nut free.

isrmss91

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:43 am

amother Apple wrote:

For the record, my ice coffee recipe has almond extract in it.

I would never assume anything to be nut free.

Most people don't expect almond in their coffee. And there is a major difference betwee almond extract to almond milk. I don't like the taste of almond milk in my coffee. it tastes terrible. and since the OP said they need CY, then she assumed it would be made dairy. The Caterer should have informed her, she was making it parve as, she had no CY available. especially given the difference in taste between almond milk and dairy. She could have subbed oatmilk or soy. But the caterer decided to make it parve. she could have at least asked if subbing was okay.

Last edited by isrmss91 on Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:46 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Azure

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:47 am

I think as others have said for allergies you should have mentioned it but it's very unprofessional to make a parve ice coffee when someone requested dairy without telling the customer. It would have been wise of her to check about allergies in general since you might have forgotten. Often hostesses check so would think kal v'chomer business owners but don't know that that's obligatory.

watergirl

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:49 am

happy7 wrote:

This. The caterer is responsible for providing what you requested. You asked for CY milk, and you said in your OP that this caterer did not have CY milk so she used almond? What kind of caterer does that? The caterer is responsible to go out and purchase the ingredients required to produce exactly what the client ordered. She was too lazy to go and get what she needed - not ok.

As for the co-worker who almost drank the almond milk - a person who is supposedly anaphylactic to something is usually on top of what they consume because their life is literally on the line. If that person so casually was about to drink or eat something without personally checking it, I'm not buying the story that she is anaphylactic to it. Allergic? Sure. Life threateningly so? No.

I had a friend who told everyone her son had a fish allergy which was so life threatening, he could not be in the room if there was fish of any kind, and we all accommodated. That was until I had a shalashudis at my house and she was not invited (it was a group of people who came to my city for shabbos and I was hosting a reunion). She decided to pop over shabbos afternoon (also uninvited but she did that a lot) and as people came, she refused to leave. I told her I was serving fish, and her son was there, and I had no intention of not serving it. She laughed and said, oh, my son will be fine. His allergy isn't so bad. She fed him food with the same utensil as the spoon that was in tuna, and he was totally fine.

My story is to illustrate that people tend to exaggerate allergies sometimes, which makes those with truly severe allergies be taken less seriously. I'm willing to assume this coworker is one of those people.

the world's best mom

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 8:57 am

As everyone else said, an allergic person needs to be more careful than that. But the caterer should not use a substitute that tastes inferior. If they ran out of milk, they should have bought more so you could enjoy your iced coffee.

If they use almond milk there regularly, the allergic person should probably never eat any of their products, unless they say they can be careful to keep her food nut free.

watergirl

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 9:01 am

the world's best mom wrote:

I once hired a caterer to come to an event in early September and bring a CY dairy chocolate fountain and do a chocolate molding and various other chocolate making project with a group of 25 kids. She charged me for what she expected to use, and then showed up with old pareve chocolate that she said she had on-hand from Pesach, which in theory should have been fine but it was already white, which meant it had melted at some point and it was chalky. It just did not work well at all. My boss felt bad for her so he paid her what she asked but we never hired her again.

ittsamother

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 9:11 am

Wow. Making a milchig drink pareve without letting you know is so not ok. On level of serving pareve ice cream instead of milchig, to me. I'd be really upset- it just doesn't taste nearly as good.

The allergy thing- I mean, she's selling an edible product. For her own good, she should inquire about allergies before changing a common recipe in any way. It's just good business practice. But on your end too, it can only help to take a minute to specify about any allergies when ordering, it's a few more seconds of your time and can prevent real harm.

amother

Apple

Wed, Aug 30 2023, 9:22 am

isrmss91 wrote:

I'm pretty sure almond extract is problematic for those w tree nut allergies. Would need an allergic person to verify that though.

My point is that if you are allergic you do have to be suspect of nuts lurking in your processed dessert drink. milchig ice coffee could potentially have been problematic too .....it's on the allergic person to verify.

Agree that caterer should not have subbed parve. I don't thnk.soy or oatmeal are acceptable either. ( and soy has its own group of people allergic)