I find it so fascinating that the day after such a major yom tov, there is a fast day related to the churban. It seems like such a different emotional scale to go from Rosh Hashana a day we are were mamlich Hashem to a day where we talk about the churban. I know that gedalia was killed on Rosh Hashanah. is there any particular connection between these days ?
wasn't Gedalya murdered on Rosh Hashana? but because we dont fast on Yom tov we fast the day after?
Right I understand but the feelings are just so far apart rosh hashana an elevated uplifting day and then tzom gedalia a day of sadness and loss. Maybe do tzom gedalia in av along with shiva Asar and tisha beav. lol I’m not HaShem. I’m just wondering if anyone heard any shiurim on this point?
Right I understand but the feelings are just so far apart rosh hashana an elevated uplifting day and then tzom gedalia a day of sadness and loss. Maybe do tzom gedalia in av along with shiva Asar and tisha beav. lol I’m not HaShem. I’m just wondering if anyone heard any shiurim on this point?
We usually remember something on the day it happened.
If someone's yartzeit is on yuntif we keep it anyway, we don't push it off to a later date. Gedalia was murdered then, why have Tzom Gedalia in Av?
We usually remember something on the day it happened.
If someone's yartzeit is on yuntif we keep it anyway, we don't push it off to a later date. Gedalia was murdered then, why have Tzom Gedalia in Av?
Idk, taanis Esther is before Purim even though they fasted 3 days on Pesach
Idk, taanis Esther is before Purim even though they fasted 3 days on Pesach
well, we wouldn't be able to fast ON Pesach. And if we fasted right before or after Pesach, the taanis would lose its connection to Purim. It's precisely that contrast between the anguish before and the joy afterwards that makes the impression.
Idk, taanis Esther is before Purim even though they fasted 3 days on Pesach
It's also for Esther who fasted the day of the battle (13.adar) as per the Halacha regarding every war that everyone needs to fast except those fighting which in this case was every single person except Esther in the palace.
well, we wouldn't be able to fast ON Pesach. And if we fasted right before or after Pesach, the taanis would lose its connection to Purim. It's precisely that contrast between the anguish before and the joy afterwards that makes the impression.
But can’t you make the same argument for Tzom Gedalia then? Why do it the day after Rosh Hashanah?
But can’t you make the same argument for Tzom Gedalia then? Why do it the day after Rosh Hashanah?
Because he was murdered on RH and you can't fast on RH. Just as when Tisha B'Av falls on Shabbat, you fast on Sunday. You're not fasting 11 months after the event happened, as would be the case if Taanit Esther were observed in Nissan and Purim the following Adar. And if you looked at it the other way, it would make even less sense to fast Taanit Esther around Pesach, a month after celebrating Purim. Keep your verb and its object as close together as you can, kwim?
I hear - I guess the change in emotions from yom tov and uplifting to tisha beav and mourning is jarring. I wish there was a rav that spoke about that point.
I hear - I guess the change in emotions from yom tov and uplifting to tisha beav and mourning is jarring. I wish there was a rav that spoke about that point.
I just want to say that I think your question is valid. I believe it's an idea I learned from Pachad Yitzchak, that each time in the Jewish year has a spiritual energy. This is the meaning of the bracha בימים ההם בזמן הזה. When we celebrate a holiday we are tapping in to the unique spiritual energy of that time period.
It seems incongruous to me to think that the unique spiritual energy of tzom gedalia is just random and unconnected to the spiritual energy of the surrounding days.
So I feel there should be a connection, and I think your question is a good one. I don't know the answer, though.
I hear - I guess the change in emotions from yom tov and uplifting to tisha beav and mourning is jarring. I wish there was a rav that spoke about that point.
Tzom Gedalia isn't remotely like Tisha Bav. It's a relatively minor fast. The mourning is mild. The restrictions are limited to eating and drinking. The fast does not begin the previous night. The timing is a bit awkward but it's hardly like being plunged into the depths of despair right at the pinnacle of your joy. After all, it's still Aseret Yemei Teshuvah, all of which is a solemn period. Not a period of mourning but still serious and muted. And while RH is a YT, it's not a time of wild jubilation. I don't see the two observances as an insurmountable conflict.
I hear - I guess the change in emotions from yom tov and uplifting to tisha beav and mourning is jarring. I wish there was a rav that spoke about that point.
On Yom Kippur we have the drama and spiritual splendour of the Avodah, finishing with the glory of the Kohen Gadol as he safety finished the Avodah, and the next page of the machzor plunges us into mourning that the Beit haMikdash isn't here and we are no longer able to be part of this.
Any uplift from Yom Tov is intrinsically entwined with mourning that we cannot fulfil the spiritual potential of these days without the Beit haMikdash.
DH once said over an idea from Rav Nosson Wachtfogel ztz"l (Mashgiach of BMG) that Rosh Hashana is supposed to be a fresh start and new beginning, not to be stuck in the same habits and patterns we came in with.
But when Gedaliah ben Achikam heard that someone wanted to kill him, instead of pausing to realize that he's supposed to listen to it to be choshesh for his well-being, he immediately went to his "no lashon hara for me" gut response.
Obviously he was killed that day because it was his time to die, but Hashem arranged it this way as a symbolic message to us not to make the same mistake, and to open our eyes and examine our ways instead of just continuing on auto-pilot.
I found the idea meaningful and inspiring, and I hope I wrote it up correctly.
