Can we interpret messages from hashem?

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 12:08 pm

Sometimes I read hear that someone had an easy time with something that they thought would be more difficult. They'll say it was a hug from hashem.

I might see a story about someone who was thinking about getting rid of her smartphone. Then she saw an advertisement on a good deal for a basic phone. It must be a message from hashem.

But what about the other way? Should we say that difficult things are petch from hashem?

If I was thinking about getting rid of my smartphone and I see an ad for a big sale on smartphones should I assume hashem is telling me to upgrade instead of get rid of?

amother

Stone

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 12:21 pm

In my personal opinion, the way we see life = the way it will present itself to us.
Hashem doesn’t have an ideal XYZ specific answer. Just like every Jew is different and one can keep this level and another must keep a higher level since it’s in their neshamos, just like leviim had their duties and kohanim very different ones, you can’t and should not equate others with yourself unless you feel it strongly relates to you and you can grow.
There’s also the saying think good and Hashem will show you it’s good. If you think it’s bad - Hashem will show you it’s bad.
This is a loose version of an idea also supported by mekubalim
That’s why also you hear so many stories of tzadikim not judging others.. etc. to have an ayin tov.
There’s good in bad and bad to be found in good.. you should just try to do your best and sometimes it’s best not to over complicate it

Are there messages? Absolutely
But you have to be someone who doesn’t overcomplicate things in order to read them correctly and feel the hashgacha in them to guide you
I hope this helped somewhat

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 12:27 pm

daagahminayin wrote:

It’s an interesting question for the mind but I find that the heart usually knows the answer in the moment.

That's sort of what I'm wondering. I sometimes think that we use our hearts instead of our minds. This allows us to reach the conclusion that our heart wants without it really making sense.

Simple example. If I want to go to shul and it's raining outside and it's making me reluctant to go. If it stops raining I'll say, must be a sign from hashem. But if it happened the other way where I'm about to go to shul and it starts raining, would I say that it must mean hashem is telling me not to go to shul?

It seems like we only try to interpret and read into things when we get the outcome our heat wants.

amother

Valerian

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 12:39 pm

If you choose to interpret an event as a Divine message that you should clean up your act, call your mother more often, speak more nicely to your family, finally forgive Ellen Stobetzky for spilling coffee on your new cashmere sweater in 11th grade, and so on, well and good. If you choose to interpret it as a message to give away all your worldly possessions and embark on a barefoot pilgrimage across the continent spreading the Word of G-d, I suggest first consulting with a mental-health professional.

amother

Purple

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 12:49 pm

I think it's laughable to claim we understand. Our brain power is a joke, we don't know anything at all, relative to Hashems infinite knowledge.

People like to plug this their own agendas, worries, or needs, into their interpretation of Gods reasoning. (God did it to comfort me, God did it to save me, God it because of lace top wigs)

Sometimes it may be true, who knows. But we definitely don't know.

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 1:06 pm

amother Purple wrote:

I find that's it's more than just claiming we understand. I constantly see a pattern (here and other places) of exclusively understanding things the way it makes us feel good. If I'm volunteering and delivering packages and I meet my long lost friend who I hadn't seen in 10 years, it must be hashem is telling me "good job". If I get a flat tire nobody wants to use the very same logic and say hashem must be saying to stop doing this mitzvah.

amother

Purple

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 1:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

I know what your saying. Some people choose to see HaShem in cases where good things happen.

But plenty if people do the opposite too. People ask "why is God punishing me?" And when world disaster strikes it gets blamed on tznius and Internet...

I definitely have a negativity bias. I have to be intentional if I will notice the good. But when something bad happens to me, my default thaught is "see, I knew God is not looking out for me!"

(Yes, I have abandonment issues 😂)

daagahminayin

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 2:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Simple example. If I want to go to shul and it's raining outside and it's making me reluctant to go. If it stops raining I'll say, must be a sign from hashem. But if it happened the other way where I'm about to go to shul and it starts raining, would I say that it must mean hashem is telling me not to go to shul?

It seems like we only try to interpret and read into things when we get the outcome our heart wants.

I don’t know, would you?! It’s a personal answer.

What I’m saying is that in each individual situation, deep down we have an inner wisdom about what is right for us (And of course sometimes that means asking a shailah etc). I’m calling that the heart but feel free to use your own terms.

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:17 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4937169/jewish/Do-You-Really-Think-G-d-Speaks-to-Us.htm

“G‑d is speaking directly to your soul (and this the source of your good resolutions).”

Ok, the easy part is reading the words. How do we apply it?

So if I'm doing a major chessed and hashem miraculously makes traffic easy that day, I'll say that it's amazing how hashem communicated to me that he's happy with my chessed and made things go smooth.

But if while doing the same chessed there's unusually heavy traffic and it causes a chain of problems and missed appointments. Can I say that hashem is clearly communicating with me that he doesn't like when I do chessed?

My dh has a relative who isn't frum anymore. He works on shabbos. He tells dh about how successful and rich he became since he gave up yiddishkeit. Can he say that hashem is telling him he's happy he's working on shabbos since he's rewarding him with excellent parnassah?

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:29 pm

daagahminayin wrote:

I don't think it should be complicated. In order for something to make sense, we have to test it and see if it always works out. If it does, great. Otherwise it's worthless.

If I try to tell you that in New York it never rains on Tuesday's. Look at the last 8 Tuesday's. See, no rain! that proves it.

Then you'd point out that the Tuesday before it rained, and 3 Tuesday's earlier as well it rained, and a bunch of other Tuesday's it also rained. If my response would be to ignore all that, you'd easily realize my logic makes zero sense.

Same thing here. If we want to say that when hashem does a noticeably good thing (makes it stop raining when I want to go to shul) it means he's communicating his happiness with what I'm doing, then we must apply the same logic the other way. When hashem does something noticeably bad (I c'vs fall down the stairs as I'm leaving to shul) that must mean hashem is telling me he's not happy with me going to shul and wants me to stay home.

amother

Poppy

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don't think that's what people mean when they say a hug from Hashem. Sometimes I feel like Hashem sent something to me (a flower bloomed, a beautiful bird, extra money, an easy appointment, etc). Doesn't mean Hashem is happy with me just that I feel hai presence

Thisisnotmyreal

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:38 pm

I personally, don't assume a specific occurrence is because of my avodah unless I specified that I'm doing x for y.

I admit that I was posted earlier was without reading the Op. To me seeing that ksav yad was confirmation of the constant dialogue we have with Hashem in the "dance" of Hashgacha protis. I'm constantly asking Hashem for Small favors and extremely often seeing it. From that same place I also just KNOW intuitively what my next move should be in avodas Hashem and what my future hopes and dreams should be. I always check back also.

Thisisnotmyreal

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:45 pm

Quote:

Same thing here. If we want to say that when hashem does a noticeably good thing (makes it stop raining when I want to go to shul) it means he's communicating his happiness with what I'm doing, then we must apply the same logic the other way. When hashem does something noticeably bad (I c'vs fall down the stairs as I'm leaving to shul) that must mean hashem is telling me he's not happy with me going to shul and wants me to stay home.[

This is called novi sheker

daagahminayin

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think we are talking on different wavelengths here. It seems you’re coming at this from a very logical approach, and if that works for you then great! (But perhaps it’s not since you still have questions?)

Maybe you would call my approach more intuitive. It’s not complicated. It’s just learning how to know things from a place other than the mind.

It’s going about your day, doing the best you can, and keeping your eyes open to what the world shows you. Seeing it all as coming from Hashem. Trusting that all of it is a loving message, sent to you in a way that you will understand.

I’m not talking about going off the deep Obviously there needs to be a balance and communication between the head and heart.

But I do think we unfortunately do not trust our own inner wisdom as much as we should. It’s the quiet whispering of the soul.