Calling back invitations

amother

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 2:50 am

I have been in some unpleasant situations that have rubbed me the wrong way. I wonder if I am the only one. It’s not the end of the world but I feel that they are just in a poor spirit.

1. I live in a small OOT community, under 100 active families. Maybe even under 50.
There was an engagement party for someone who had been known by many many families. Someone announced at the shacharit that everyone is invited. I was going to go but I don’t know if everyone was going. I have mentioned it to a friend who happened to help organize it. She got upset because the party wasn’t meant to be for everyone and had the guy specifically message my dh that it was a mistake and we are not invited.
I wonder was it really necessary? Ok you made a mistake but is it such a huge deal if I stop buy for 15 minutes to say mazel tov?

2. We don’t have a sukka but some people in my part of town do. I have a toddler who cannot walk to a community sukka on shabbes. I called one of the neighbors and invited myself to them and promised to bring food. She consented under the condition that if there is a meal available in the community sukka, they will just eat there and cancel the meal in their house. Well, they have just announced that there will be a kiddush there. I didn’t know if it is what she meant and asked her specifically if the meal is going to happen or not. They decided they are canceling the meal and going to the community sukka (even though they have their own), thus leaving me without the meal in a sukka.
I know technically it is what we agreed on but like, if I knew someone needs to eat in a sukka and they are losing this opportunity to do a mitzvah by me choosing to do something that I do every week anyway, then I think I would not cancel on people. I used to have a sukka before and I had people show up in my sukka by mistake. I never sent anyone away, I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do in essence.

amother

Teal

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 2:57 am

amother OP wrote:

#1 is interesting, no it wouldn't be a big deal if an extra person stops by for Mazel tov at an engagement unless its in a sukkah that's small or a sit down meal, but also not a big deal to not go.

#2 how does it affect you? You can't still bring your food before shabbos and have her leave it in the sukkah or go before she leaves so you can still use her sukah?

amother

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 3:01 am

amother Teal wrote:

I haven’t thought of asking to use her sukka. Won’t it be weird to be there without them? I asked to join their family meal. But do you think I should ask to use the sukka without anyone being at home? I would need to walk through their house to get there.
ETA: I see you meant I should eat before she leaves. I will give it a thought.

I am asking in general though, if you are aware that there is a family with a toddler and no sukka in your area would you really cancel on them like that?

Golde

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 3:07 am

amother OP wrote:

I also live in a very small OOT community.
Regarding your points:

1. That is just plain rude and bad manners. Nothing more to say about that.

2. We're in the same situation as your neighbour. We have a sukkah. But if there's a communal meal in the shul sukkah, we'd for sure go there instead, even if someone would appreciate/need our invitation. So I can understand your neighbour. Sure it's the better thing to do to host as a chessed but for me personally cooking and hosting is overwhelming, even if someone brings food I still have to tidy, clean, set up and so on. I work full time, have a bunch of children, am generally tired. If I have the chance to eat in the shul sukkah, I will.
You are right in that it would be better to host, but I don't think you can expect others to extend themselves like that.

amother

Forestgreen

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 3:23 am

amother OP wrote:

#1 sounds strange. Is there a particular reason that you think they specifically don’t want you there?

#2 they are not responsible for your mitzva or for your specific circumstances that will keep you from the communal succah- is there a reason that makes it impossible to have your own succah? If so you can ask to borrow theirs and have cold food. In your situation I would do all I could to get my own succah even if it’s only big enough for my husband to eat in so as not to need to rely on others

amother

Papayawhip

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:01 am

amother OP wrote:

#1 if this is an open house type engagement this is wierd. Im in towm, but here you don't need an invitation to an open house event. Maybe they only bought s bit of food?

#2 im sorry op I know this is hard for you and it sounds like a very challenging situation to not have a sukka, but she did not cancel. This is nor her fault or responsibility. You need to keep tellinh yourself that.

She had been very upfront woth you. It is not her responsibility to accommodate you and mwke an extra meal in this busy season. Honestly, this would be true even if this was your relative, even more so a neighbor.

Pleawe do not hold a grudge against host

I would ask her or other neighbors if you can use their sukkah for you seuda before or after. Theirs seems like it could work because theyll be at the kiddush.

If worse comes to worse your husband will also eat at the kiddush, wash etc, and yoill wash at home and then eat a shekakol "seuda" together at hime (fish, chicken/pot kugel ). I know its not ideal and not fun at all but its doable.

What are you doing Friday night?

amother

Petunia

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:04 am

amother OP wrote:

1 is weird, I’ve never heard of an engagement bring by invitation. Where I live they aren’t sit down affairs and the more ppl that come, the better

2. Is on you, though. It seems you put her in a corner. Inviting yourself is never a good idea, especially if she had to put conditions, she obviously wasn’t up to it. The second she seemed hesitant, you should have backed off. You really should attempt to make a sukka, any kind, so you’re not reliant on other people

amother

Papayawhip

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:30 am

amother OP wrote:

No need to eat before she leaves, prob better if shes gone as youre not on her way, how will your dh be there in time anyway? Ask her if you can use her sukkah (which she does not need ti ahree to either, if she says no try d
Someone else)

5th

amother

Mintgreen

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:42 am

I’m the OP of this recent thread: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....27716

I’m only commenting regarding the second instance where are you invited your family to somebody else because you need to use their sukkah. Asking for an invitation for a whole family as opposed to a single something that should only be done if it is somebody that you’re close with and it is unavoidable. Full out inviting yourself, and then offering to bring one dish for the meal should never be done; it’s very uncomfortable for the people you’ve invited yourself to.

The people you invited yourself to were very clear that they may take back the “offer” If the shul Had something going on which you found out soon enough it did. It’s really unfair for you to put your husband’s obligation to eat in a sukkah And do somebody else; it’s his requirement to build a sukkah so he can eat in one.

If I was the person whose house you invited yourself to, I would be very frustrated. You’ve made it clear that it is not them who want to join, rather, it is a service that they can provide to you which is why you wanted to go.

I’m being very blunt because people here are suggesting that you still find a way to eat in their sukkah. It seems to me they’ve made it very clear to you that it will not work out.

People think that it has to cost significant amount, amount of money and labor to put up a sukkah. It’s simply not true. We have had years where we were Flat broke, and lived in an apartment, and still managed to put up a sukkah For less than $50. We used the amount of wood just to make the frame, we used literal bedsheets for the walls, and we got schach That people were giving away. It was certainly not an attractive Or necessarily very comfortable sukkah But we did what we had to do and it worked perfectly.

Where I live, people give away bamboo that they have growing in their backyards. That makes perfect and free schach. People also give away their old mats, etc., you just have to keep your eyes open.

amother

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:51 am

Not to out myself, we used to have a sukka (and host others) but now our yard became unusable (we live in an apartment building with non-Jews).
People think we have a sukka but we haven’t had one in years. The family I asked are our friends, they are not some random people. They asked us for favors too throughout the years. I never invited myself to anyone but I heard from others that people do that. They put themselves out there and often get invited by those who have a sukka. She didn’t sound so overwhelmed when I asked her even though I do understand why she opted out in the end.
I just don’t think it is proper.
I could also bring several dishes. It’s really about eating together as a family and having company. It’s a very lonely sukkos when you are home with a toddler and everyone else is elsewhere having fun.

amother

Mintgreen

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 4:54 am

amother Teal wrote:

#2 how does it affect you? You can't still bring your food before shabbos and have her leave it in the sukkah or go before she leaves so you can still use her sukah?

No, OP please do not do this. The person was very honest with you that she is not up to having people for this meal with or without her. She had an opportunity to tell you that you could still use her sukkah. She did not offer. Please do not ask.

Another teal, what do you mean "how does it affect you"? The person who OP wanted to host her family said no. They can not. How could that NOT effect her? It's a real person we are talking about, both OP and the host. People for some reason sometimes forget that the host is someone with feelings and their own needs and wants. Asking how it effects OP that the host said no further shows that people are literally using a host for their needs. It's not ok.