S/O Babies w/ Downs Syndrome

amother

Hyacinth

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 12:37 pm

flowerpower wrote:

People keep writing that the community pressures them to give it up. Who is the community? Random people? Enlighten me please!

Its just a general community pressure/assumption. Like if they keep the baby, people will talk about them. Also if they go and ask the Rebbe, they will be told to give away the child.
It's not that they can't keep the child, but they have to be a strong person to withstand the pressure.

happy chick

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Outerspace wrote:

Why can't they keep their baby until it gets too difficult? (If it does)

There used to be a terrible stigma attached to any family of special needs children. It wasn't like it is today. People were ashamed and embarrassed of anyone knew. Some who kept their kids home, would hide them and not take them out. It was very sad for these children.

Today, there is so much more awareness. I think that people who make the decision to give their children up for adoption or foster care is because they don't feel well enough equipped to deal with it. And I don't think anyone makes this decision lightly. I truly believe the parent are heartbroken when they make their ultimate decision.

May we all be blessed with health children!

amother

NeonPink

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 1:00 pm

Some of you are so judgmental! My grandmother had a brother with Down syndrome her mothers dying wish was that she keep the brother and not give him away he was older then , my grandmother kept him took care of him he was a joy to the family and he lived till 70! They are very chassidish. I do know people who have kept and given away special needs children . We are not in that situation and we can’t understand . I know someone who gave away she thought would be best for her family and she was miserable and took her kid back at 9 months and he’s a Bucher now and doing very well. We can’t judge and now it’s not a stigma anymore .

amother

Sage

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 1:00 pm

I'm genuinely curious. In my world (MO), you can get CVS testing done fairly early in the pregnancy (I want to say 10 weeks?) that tells you with reasonable certainty whether or not the fetus has down's. I know people in my world who've found out about Downs very early in the pregnancy and were able to get a heter for termination. And I assume there are others who do this but don't talk about it.

In communities where people are pressured give DS babies up for fostering/adoption, why is this preferable to a very early termination?

Sorry if this is an ignorant or insensitive question - it's not meant to be.

amother

Mulberry

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 1:24 pm

flowerpower wrote:

People keep writing that the community pressures them to give it up. Who is the community? Random people? Enlighten me please!

Flowerpower, do you have a child with DS?
The pressure comes from family (parents if you're super young like I was) and the general community around you. if the Rebbe is known to encourage giving away, the pressure is even stronger.

I will say that I think it's getting less than it used to be.

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 1:27 pm

amother Sage wrote:

Because many hold killing a neshama is not allowed unless someone is in danger. And down syndrome is not a danger. But there is no halacha saying you can't give a child up for adoption. Also many who hold this way don't test or do sonograms, so many likely don't know until the baby is born.

qwerty4

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 2:12 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Can someone please clarify which community and Rebbe you are all referring to?
AFAIK there is one chassidus, which isnt all that big and mainstream to be referred to as THE community and THE rebbe on a general site.

amother

Sage

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 2:14 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

Thank you for this explanation!

amother

Moonstone

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 2:23 pm

amother Sage wrote:

And why is early termination ok just because it's not the child you expected to have? There are children with down syndrome who are healthy too! What if the child had adhd or ASD? What then, too bad, you couldn't terminate because there is no test?? Or it's ok because the features aren't stamped on their face?
And if you say they didn't feel they can handle it, we are all given many things in life we feel we can't handle. That's part of our journey and we grow into it. No first time mother can handle tumultuous teenagehood. No newlywed can predict the challenges their marriage can bring. And yes, in my experience, many other things can be much much harder than raising a child with ds.
I don't mean to be harsh and I hope I don't come across that way. It is very very painful to us parents to hear that there are those who don't view our children as worth of life simply because of a genetic difference!

amother

Sage

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 2:25 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Where did I say it was a good thing that people did this? I only said I know that it’s done. No approval or disapproval.

Edit: But I would guess that most people making the decision to terminate make it based on their * own* capacity (or perceived capacity) to be parents, not to tell other parents that their children aren’t worthy of life.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 3:34 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

I might be more inclined to believe this if there were also children given away (no, I'm not going to say it a "nicer" way) who were hard to care for and had other issues.

I have never known a Jewish family to sign over their child with cancer to the hospital because "it's hard"

Or one who is in a car accident and needs intense rehab and / or becomes paralyzed

Seems to be that only kids who may or may not have intellectual disabilities, and may or may not have medical issues that come with them are the ones who are given away (or placed in residential schools)

So no, I don't believe it's just because "it' hard" to raise a disabled child. And before you all start throwing tomatoes, I'm raising a child with Down syndrome and intense medical needs, plus several other kids, and yes, it's hard, but there is no way I'd give him away (or any of my others though honestly sometimes with the teens I'm temped.... ) Can't Believe It

Im sorry you dont believe what I wrote. But I actually, personally know of 2 families that had a child with down syndrome. And, the reason they gave the child away is because they have a big family at home and it would be too hard to take care of a child with special needs. They want the rest of theyre children to have a 'regular' upbringing with 2 parents that have time and patience for them.
Again, I dont think anyone could judge anyone that gives away theyre child. Even, if you have a child with ds and made the decision to keep the child.

Genius

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 8:20 pm

This thread is so narrow minded and judgemental that I’m nauseous. The love and acceptance I see in the chassidish community to special needs children, home or in foster care, is a kiddush Hashem. Should we all be gebentcht with children who are healthy physically, mentally, emotionally and chromosomally. (Just made that word up but I think it brings my point across)

Genius

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 8:39 pm

Genius wrote:

Google claims this word exists. Nisht meshana…

amother

Hyacinth

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 8:48 pm

qwerty4 wrote:

There's more than 1 and they are both big and mainstream (I personally know of 2).

When I said the Rebbe I meant the rebbe of that particular chassidus.

amother

Hyacinth

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 8:52 pm

Genius wrote:

Narrow minded and judgemental? Maybe the narrow minded and judgemental ones are the ones that pressure the couple to give away the baby whether or not they want to!

Yes most foster babies with DS end up in warm loving homes, however that doesn't justify and mother having to give up her child AGAINST HER NATURAL WILL. If she gave the child up because SHE wanted to, that's one thing. But many do it because it's expected/community pressure.
And like other posters have mentioned, literally the only genetic syndrome that's consistently given away as newborns are the babies with DS; not those with a multitude of other genetic abnormalities, ASD, etc. So the official reason for it is unjustifiable.

Genius

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:01 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

I don’t disagree with you. Doesn’t make it any less narrow minded (lumping “chassidish” under one umbrella) or judgemental (judging parents who keep, parents who give away, and the kids and adults with Down’s syndrome) nuff said

amother

Natural

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:04 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

I doubt the Rebbe calls the family and insists the baby be given away. More likely, the husband, who doesn't want to keep reviewing baby, consults with the rebbe who agrees with him. Husband then pressures wife that "rebbe said" to give the baby away.

That's heartbreaking. It needs to be the couple's joint decision. How does their relationship as a couple survive such a thing.

I think this was the plot to a novel written several years ago.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:14 pm

amother Apple wrote:

I had the saddest story after I gave birth to one of my children. I was in the kimpeturin place affiliated with the sect that gives away, and they were talking by my table how a disabled child breaks the home and they should be given away. No one could have known about my sweet severely delayed 3 year old who I love so much. They were talking about disabled as if they were not people to be loved. I was so horrified. I cried and cried and asked hashem for help with her I felt it was an eis ratzon. and a few weeks later she got a diagnosis (thanks to imamother it’s a whole different story)

that’s amazing can we hear that story?!