I am an Irish triplet Ama

watergirl

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 5:28 am

dilego wrote:

Are we frum ladies here?????
Since when is it in our hands when and how many and how spaced apart we have children
The Ribono shel Olam decides. and sometimes things dont go as planned and one waits or bc fails or who knows how many reasons for having 3 under 3 or so. Please let Hashem do what is right and dont judge so much.
We are Not in charge. Hishtadlus yes but no mote than that.
And yes a mother gets her emotional kochos and phisical kochos from Him with each child
When I get a difficulty I get the Kochos to get passed it and the others difficulties arent for us this is why we dont get their peckel and their kochos.

dilego wrote:

So pleaaaase no judging your emotional neglect please. This is each ones peckel and yes your mothers isnt yours and our childs isnt ours. We get the kochos to help them on to their track of their life

This is not fair. One of the best parts of this site is the ability to come on here and discuss and seek support for things that people need support for. It's really inappropriate to insinuate that all frum women have to think a certain way.

From what this OP said about her experience, her mother was great and was totally able to handle kids this close in succession. Other women here said they also had a good experience as a mother of kids that close. And yet as we do on imamother, others came on here and said they also were one of many, very close in age, and it was not ok at all.

Not everyone experienced a mother or themselves receiving extra kochos with each baby (and yes I'll go down this tricky road - not everyone experienced a mother or themselves receiving extra parnassa with each baby either). I think that might be Hashem's way of telling them to take a break. I'm not a rav or a neviyah obviously and this is a MAJOR shailah for your trusted rav.

Dilego, I am honestly so happy for you that you feel Hashem gave you what you needed to get by during times you were in need. But it's tone deaf and hurtful when you do that as a way to use religion and shame for those who don't get what they need. Because what they need may have been birth control, but religion was used to restrict it. The same Ribono Shel Olam who gives us children also gave us a way to manage our lives with the help of birth control.

The women who are here that you see as judging are writing through their lens, which was created through their lives and experiences. If a mother and father can partner with Hashem and bring neshamos down, of course it's beautiful! When it's abused, when the father checks out after his few minutes are over (which we see on this site WAY too often), when the mother leaves the older siblings to raise the babies (which we also see here WAY too often), it's not partnering with Hashem, it's a serious issue and I believe that in these cases, Hashem is trying to send kochos to get help, not to continue down a destructive path.

I also want to make you and others aware that there is such a thing as being addicted to pregnancy and childbirth, and even the first few months of having a newborn. You can google it, and I've linked info on this in the past. There are some women who have a literal addiction, and they need help, not to be lifted up as role models. Usually it's the children themselves who are the ones to pick up on the issues.

SuperWify

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 6:12 am

watergirl wrote:

👏 👏 👏

Busybee5

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 7:52 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

My MIL had 4 stairsteps. Each consecutive child was born about 11 months after the previous one. She then had #5 about 3 years after the fourth and that was it. She was also working FT while FIL was at uni and had no cleaning help.

So she ended up with the same amount as me but I've spaced mine a lot in between (besides for the first 2) so I get to enjoy my baby's/kids as they grow up. It's really not clever to have so many so close together, it's easy to crash chas vesholom plus u really can't give that much attention to each child on their own. Twins is different, because you had no choice...

My niece has 4 under 3 (she might be 4 now!) Not clever. Why do it to yourselves. It's like they're saying they're better than you. Look I can cope! Well who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

amother

DarkViolet

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:38 am

Busybee5 wrote:

Im an Irish triplet so I feel somewhat qualified to answer this.

There seems to be some amothers pointing fingers at a mom who chose to have children close together. If you don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, then don’t be the one to put the mom down.

I’m talking for myself, but behind our closed doors was a lot of love, a lot of fun, and yes plenty of mess. But no neglect, no attitude of “look at me”. Just a mom who loves kids and still gives all of us as much time, attention and help as we need 30+ years later.

amother

DarkViolet

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:48 am

amother Copper wrote:

Do you get along with the two siblings? What are the genders? Was there any jealousy or fighting? Were you treated as individuals or were you expected to be the same (matching clothing , same activities…) Did you share the same friends?

All girls. I’d say fighting peaked at ages 9-11. Was much better in high school.
Our personalities (and looks) are all really different. My mother was very in to “chanoch lnaar al pi darcho”. We were definitely treated individually. Some of us got more brand name stuff, makeup earlier, heels earlier. We matched when we were small. Maybe until age 4-6.
We shared friends somewhat. Definitely on our block, and a lot in high school. Not so much anymore. Though if I meet my sisters friends randomly on the street, I feel like I just met my old best friend.

Busybee5

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:50 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Sure when it works out well it's really special , and even fun, especially for the kids. But no one knows in advance if or how they'll manage so it's a big deal really especially as kids get harder as they get older..I'm dealing with teens and a toddler now so I get how dealing with one stage at once with more kids can be easier.

Busybee5

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:55 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

My mother is the youngest of her family (by a good few years) and did not grow up with other children living at home. I think this has a lot to do with it. She did go on birth control(she told me this recently) but always small gaps. She loves babies, loves kids, and loved to have as many as she can handle.

So yes, she had a choice. And she was quite happy with her choices.

Your mother sounds amazing. What I'm saying is that it doesn't always work out so well for everyone that decides to have 3 so close together. It's a problem when they do, and they don't cope ,or they regret their decisions. The kids end up losing out for selfish reasons., (if it doesn't go as planned)

amother

DarkViolet

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:01 am

Busybee5 wrote:

I definitely hear that side.

I think now everyone is much more aware of emotional neglect and the ramifications. Also, mothers are so much busier now than 40 years.

But, and this is a big but, there are many mothers out there who can handle it. And many children that thrive by living with siblings close in age. I don’t see the need to put down others who make this choice by saying “we don’t know what happens behind closed doors”. If you don’t know, then don’t really have a right to comment on her choice.

amother

DarkViolet

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:08 am

Busybee5 wrote:

It doesn’t always work out so well for some people to have any children at all.

It is definitely a problem when that happens, but I don’t think children born with small age gaps have a disproportionate chance of ending up neglected. I think a certain percentage of families aren’t coping, but I don’t think the age of the children have what to do with it.

amother

Springgreen

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:12 am

Busybee5 wrote:

(I'm going to sidestep your earlier comment of NOT CLEVER - because I'm going to be dlk"z and think that you meant NOT CLEVER FOR YOU or for SOME PEOPLE- not ch"v bashing people that have kids close together as not being as clever as you Smile

)
I'm just curious- you would tell someone to go on birth control because some other people don't handle it well. Would you really advise someone that you don't know (who knows herself btw!) that it's better to go on birth control because YOU wouldn't want a hectic life?

amother

Bluebell

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:29 am

gosh maybe none of us should have any kids bec maybe ill end up emotionally neglecting them..

you can only make the best decision with what you are dealing with at the time.

I have my first two 16 months apart (no bc by choice) and im the happiest.. im on bc now after my 2nd bec right NOW I need to breathe.. that doesnt mean I shouldnt have had two and that doesnt mean someone else shouldnt have a third closer than me..

people like to bash and knock down things that make them insecure.. keep your family size how you like and mind your own business.

*I would also like to point out that I personally know people from really large families (like 12-15) and some are really burnt out and have resentment towards this and the the others are the happiest and healthiest people I know. I dont think that emotional well being/neglect is strictly because of the size of the family.. it has a LOT of other factors

tryinghard

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 10:37 am

amother Aquamarine wrote:

My friend knows someone who deliberately doesnt nurse just so she can have kids closer together.

Whipping out my judgement here. Nursing does not work for everyone. 100%. It's hard, and I don't judge women for not nursing if it doesn't work for them.

But this. Is. Not. Ok.

Medicine and halacha are in strong concurrence that "breast is best". There are halachos about women not being allowed to remarry if they have a young baby because the new husband might make her stop nursing. In order to have his baby.

What kind of backwards logic is this, rob your baby of the benefits of nursing just to pop out another baby who you will also deprive of the opportunity?