5+ kids, What does Shabbos Meal look like

amother

Blush

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 3:23 am

amother OP wrote:

So let down about the way our Shabbos meals look lately... We have kids ranging from ages 5 to 17 and there is no law and order

the disappointment is this is coming after so many years of dh & I trying to set up a beautiful working system where all kids love Shabbos and share and sing... right now the younger ones just keep wondering away and playing the older ones keep checking their watches nobody's too happy about singing along not even sure what went wrong and when

Can anyone give me a run through of what your Shabbos meal systems look like

At least one enticing food for each child. An engaging short story from Our sages Show the Way, the Maggid books, the Other Side of the Story, or some other similar source. A quick vort on the Parsha that includes a story or funny mashal. A few quick parsha questions or riddles targeted to each kid. A Halacha question (guy blocked driveway repeatedly so owner gave a flat tire- does he have to pay) or moral conundrum that provokes lively conversation.

Whatever the kids are interested in talking about. The teacher who won’t let kids go to the bathroom. The crazy bus driver. The family featured in The Voice of Lakewood column who spent a crazy amount on the chasunah. An upcoming long distance drive to a family simcha. Whatever.

A couple of short zemiros. A dessert that they all look forward to. We keep the meal to under an hour.

Over the years it has ebbed and flowed with the kids ages and participation but for the most part they are interested, look forward to the seudah, and don’t want to leave for fear of missing out on the action. There is occasional bickering but we try to seat them strategically and keep everyone full and it works wonders.

Other than that I find that when DH and I are having animated conversation the kids all want to join in!

amother

Dimgray

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 4:05 am

My kids are older but even though ouur seudos were not always storybook perfect, my kids always loved shabbos and have very happy memories from their childhood shabbossim. I think what contributed to it was making sure that everyone had something they really liked at the meal and I would tell each one I made this especially because I know you like it.
I admit that when they were very young and I was exhausted and overwhelmed I wasn't always so makpid about setting the table. At some point I noticed that this bothered my kids and we started to make a real effort to set the table beautifully together which they loved.They also loved parsha quizzes and continue to do so until today. Not every week but often we had amazing singalongs for zemiros and bentching.
Today with marrieds and grandchildren added to the mix our shabbos seudos are generally loud, boisterous and happy affairs. B"H.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 4:11 am

5 kids between 3 and 9. Oldest acts silly and rude, another one always says he's not going to wash, eat anything ever again etc. because of some far-fetched non-reason, but if we just carry on and tell him to join us when he's ready he always does. Youngest falls off his chair a million times and yells about which foods he does and doesn't want. Kids often end up eating with their fingers.

We usually do the meals fairly fast, only do learning and zemiros if the kids seem up to it. I imagine it will change when they are older.

That being said, they do enjoy the food and I think we make it special for them - I make them what they like and they don't get baked goods during the week so dessert is always a plus.

amother

Crocus

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 9:03 am

Ours is total chaos.

amother

Steel

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:05 am

I’m careful to have the table set and the kids ready otherwise chaos sets in. They stay around for challah and as they get full, start to leave the table. I started doing achas shoalti, a book that says a scenario and you have to say who is right based on halacha. The kids all come back to the table for that and it gets them involved in a discussion. We try to keep it non pressured. The boys get called back to the table to read their dvar torah/ parsha questions.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:09 am

The umber doesn’t matter, I think ages matter more.
In my family, we don’t sing shalom aleichem and eshes chayil if we are tired or there is an overtired baby to put to bed. We all stand and are quiet for the kiddush. Little kids are encouraged as much as possible to be attentive and quiet for kidush and hamotzi. It usually works. If someone is loud, they are usually ignored until we can talk freely.

We start eating. The food is usually all ready by then. If I am sick or postpartum then the table sometimes isn’t set and dh with my sons set the table after shul.
I get to sit and kids bring the food to the table. They are usually hungry. Everyone eats and then they read their questions/ dvae torah from school. At that point a discussion about the parsha might develop and DH will also say a dvar torah. We may or may not sing zemiros. Young kids go off to play, older kids sit and listen to grown up talk or they tell stories from their school week. When we are done with all the courses, we bench. Whoever is tired before that, is put to bed before the end of the meal.

I have never saw some of the things from the thread in other houses either. I guess people with more chaotic meals don’t invite guests

amother

Cognac

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:15 am

1 older kid sits with Adidas pants and his undershirt at the meal, likes making cocktails or beer and becomes busy preparing that . Talks sports at the table with his brother .

2nd kid sits with his suit , doesn’t participate when DH makes kiddush , busy doing his own thing and will start the meal for himself usually after we finish the second course

3rd kid comes to the table in sweatpants , a white Shabbos shirt wide open bearing his sleeveless undershirt. Just rolled out of bed , no Davening nothing before

4th kid , eager to eat . That’s all he cares about .

5th kid starts off with her family of dolls at the table and eventually wanders off and comes back to sit on Totty’s lap when he sings zemiros

DH , sings , talks to the kids about their interests and stuff .

Me- I serve , clear off and then I ask for a few minutes of quiet while I read a book on hilchos Shabbos . Everyone is quiet and participates in the discussion afterward if they have questions or comments

I usually bentch alone and leave the table while DH and the boys shmooze , and then they make mezuman and bentch.

I feel blessed that my kids no matter where they stand in their frumkeit all come to the Shabbos table at a certain point .

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:21 am

amother OP wrote:

I don’t expect little kids to stay at the table or sing along. Older kids can also bench earlier if they are bored.

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:28 am

Age 3-15
Table set Fri morning.
Kids hv set seats
Dh starts right when gets home
2 youngest wander in & out. Which is fine.
Dh does pasha w/ younger ones.
Some orders say school dvar torah. We give out pasha nosh
Plenty of random schmoozing abt news, parsha etc. Often heated.
Singing, boys join in half the time.

Older kids may not leave table during meal to read etc or no dessert or melava malka pizza.

Eta we do not shlep meals. So the kids r not bored.
Courses r served right away.

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:48 am

amother Pewter wrote:

Our Friday night meals, 6 kids, 11 and under.

DH comes home late after Kabolas Shabbos/Maariv. Kids are playing nicely and occasionally saying they're hungry so I let them take fresh challah rolls.

DH comes in, time for the meal! Every week I'm running late and not ready yet. DH takes out kiddush cup and challos while I continue making salads. I call kids to come to the dining room for Kiddush. Some weeks we all make it into the room, other weeks someone has a meltdown before and doesn't come. Sometimes I try to call them but usually I don't bother because I have very little success. If we all make it into the room, one kid will sit in the other person's chair or they will start a wild game that makes someone cry. It is a very rare week that everyone is at the table happily throughout kiddush.

We go to wash, half the kids stay at the table and make comments about how they already washed and start piling their plates with salads.

DH makes hamotzi and everyone who is there takes food. Someone will complain that I didn't make enough types of salad. The baby will be either trying to pull off the tablecloth or convince DH to hold him or trying various daredevil tricks.

Finally I finish making whatever salads I'm going to make and wash and sit down. Before I've finished my slice of challah DD5 is insisting I read her parsha questions. Her teacher sends a 2 page newsletter with questions and songs on the back and I have to read the whole thing. Sometimes another child will read their Dvar Torah or more commonly ask me to read it. Sometimes DH will read a story or do a guessing game where he reads a line of the story and we all call out the last word.

Then I go get the soup. Everyone wants something different in their soup or doesn't want soup altogether. When I don't have chicken in the soup (frequently lately, chicken wings are much cheaper) I get a speech about how chicken wings should come without bones and why don't I use different chicken in the soup.

Okay, it's time for the next course! But too often these days there is no next course. If I didn't have time to make kugel, and we don't have chicken, there is nothing else to serve. So I endure another speech about how much they like kugel and how I should have made chicken. If we do have the next course, one or two kids will decide they want it, and everyone else will decide they want dessert.

DH is often getting tired at this point and will often bentch right after the soup is served. He'll take the baby or toddler upstairs to put them to bed. I try to convince everyone that they can have dessert after they bentch and put on pajamas. They usually ignore me and continue playing increasingly wild games around the table. Finally I manage to herd them out of the dining room at start putting away the food while frequently reminding them how to get dessert.

One kid is always "too tired" for dessert and please put hers into a bag for tomorrow. (She is one of the last to fall asleep.)

Shabbos day:

DH does not have a set time to come home. I am disorganized in case that was unclear. So we do not make kiddush until he walks in and announces that he is ready for kiddush. That can be as late as 3 or 4 pm. Either way, I will not be ready. The kids will have eaten breakfast (Shabbos cereal) until lunchtime and then been snacking on kugel or pasta salad or hard boiled eggs.

So about 20 minutes after DH is ready for kiddush, some of us will make it to the dining room. Again, someone will have a meltdown. If their meltdown is bad enough, it will be contagious and the 11yo will be in tears and DH will go to a different room so he doesn't lose his temper.

Someone else will be too engrossed in their book and not interested in coming.

Whoever comes, eventually DH makes kiddush and I bring out a bunch of salads. DH will try to say a Dvar Torah but I'm often the only one interested and there are a lot of interruptions. Then I deal with more complaints about how there's not enough food (nobody likes cholent) and after everyone expresses excitement about the salami there are hardly any takers.

By the end of the meal it's just me, DH, and the baby at the table. I try to chase the kids back to bentch.

We love Shabbos! (Good, plentiful food usually keeps the table happier but cannot prevent the meltdowns.)

Why is dh coming home so late? 3-4 pm on Shabbos day, that’s so unfair to you and the kids.

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 10:51 am

amother Pewter wrote:

He likes to daven slower, learn more beforehand, but can't do that during the week. He likes to be at the minyan but daven on his own unrushed timeline afterwards. He also likes to get in his daily shiurim before making kiddush.

If I am organized and ask him to be home earlier he will make the effort, but I usually don't.

That really unusually late. That probably why you have so many meltdowns. Kids can’t wait until afternoon to eat the shabbos meal. That’s difficult.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 1:32 pm

amother NeonPink wrote:

That really unusually late. That probably why you have so many meltdowns. Kids can’t wait until afternoon to eat the shabbos meal. That’s difficult.

I'd agree with you if I wasn't living it. I've tried having the meal earlier a few times and not seen much improvement. So I decided it wasn't worth it.

Inspired by Tan though to take another look and see what we can do to improve things.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 1:39 pm

amother NeonPink wrote:

Why is dh coming home so late? 3-4 pm on Shabbos day, that’s so unfair to you and the kids.

In Chabad that's not crazy late, not sure if that poster is Chabad but by us it's not unusual at all. By day we start at 2:30 regardless of if my husband is home or not and there's no issue for us. But I give my kids a solid snack with protein around 12 so no one is starving

amother

Mimosa

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 2:34 pm

I’m from the older generation. 7 kids. Each person had their assigned seat-not just for Shabbos but for every day. They all got kiddush and challah in age order, starting with the oldest, a son, who always sat to dh’s left. Don’t ask me how we got them to do this, but they waited their turn! They stayed through soup on Friday night at least and then younger ones migrated to the living room. We did bench together. They all helped with serving and clean up, according their age and abilities. It certainly did get loud and there were plenty of quarrels at the table! It was fun, even though I was such an exhausted mommy.

amother

Broom

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 2:41 pm

amother Periwinkle wrote:

I Daven at chabad. We end 12:30. We stay for kiddish so figure 30-45 minutes. That puts us at 1:15. Occasional fabrengen: that can be 30 minutes. So 1:45. I can’t imagine regular shabbos davening going any later.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 2:57 pm

amother Broom wrote:

That's because your DH davens with the minyan lol.

amother

Broom

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 2:58 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

That's because your DH davens with the minyan lol.

(We daven there as a family) not sure I understand though, are you referring to a breakaway minyan?)

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 3:14 pm

amother Broom wrote:

(We daven there as a family) not sure I understand though, are you referring to a breakaway minyan?)

No, he likes to daven on his own timeline. So he will answer to the minyan and then daven at whatever speed he wants.

amother

DarkViolet

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 3:20 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

That’s really hard for your kids to not eat a normal lunch at lunch time I would imagine.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 3:24 pm

amother Broom wrote:

Mikvah and Chassidus at 8:30, davening starts at 10:00, goes til 1:00, farbrengen for an hour or so, 20 min walk home. That's around 2:30. Shabbos mevorchim Davening starts 10:30 because of Tehillim so either my husband leaves the farbrengen early or we start without him.