5+ kids, What does Shabbos Meal look like

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 10:36 pm

So let down about the way our Shabbos meals look lately... We have kids ranging from ages 5 to 17 and there is no law and order

the disappointment is this is coming after so many years of dh & I trying to set up a beautiful working system where all kids love Shabbos and share and sing... right now the younger ones just keep wondering away and playing the older ones keep checking their watches nobody's too happy about singing along not even sure what went wrong and when

Can anyone give me a run through of what your Shabbos meal systems look like

yachnabobba

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 10:44 pm

1. Nothing like the coloring book family
2. Some weeks better some weeks worse
3. No matter what I try and maintain my emotional equilibrium

amother

Seagreen

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 10:47 pm

husband and teenage son comes home from shul.

We are all still in pajamas and chaos rains.

We finally all get dressed and get to the table.

DH does kiddush. babies all shriek till they get grape juice.

We try to do hamotzi. everyone fights and annoys eachother.

We eat cholent super fast. we sometimes add a salad when feeling fancy. someone tries to say a dvar torah but someone is usually fighting or crying.

Bench and clean up.

I have zero expectations from shabbos meals. One day when everyone is over the age of 8 maybe we can make them nicer.

amother

White

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:22 pm

Not sure I should answer as I only have four children ...but bh expecting again.
Out shabbos meals are usually nice. I have some books we read the table. The older few takes turns reading for us every week. We spend time speaking to the kids. I have one child who is hard and likes to make a scene so that puts us off but once wtvr is bothering him stops the meal is fine. I try to make foods they like. They can only go away if they are excused,otherwise they say by the table for the most part. For the most pert everyone sits and eats. I do try to have a special dessert for them and we bench out loud together.

Eta. I ask them each week if there is something special they want for shabbos and incorporate it into the meal.

If it's late I don't make the meal so long. I have one child that always tries to read/go lay down in the middle. I let him go to sleep after soup usually. I take away all books and often there is a fight about it until he calms down.

We don't have total set places for everyone. They take turns sitting next to me. Each meal someone else does.

The table is set beforehand completely and often they help set it.

happy chick

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:29 pm

Very loud and messy. So far from the picture perfect scene.

The kids come and go as they please. Husband and I remain at the table until the meal is officially over. We will not force anyone to sit at the table if they don't want to. One day....

amother

Pewter

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:53 pm

Our Friday night meals, 6 kids, 11 and under.

DH comes home late after Kabolas Shabbos/Maariv. Kids are playing nicely and occasionally saying they're hungry so I let them take fresh challah rolls.

DH comes in, time for the meal! Every week I'm running late and not ready yet. DH takes out kiddush cup and challos while I continue making salads. I call kids to come to the dining room for Kiddush. Some weeks we all make it into the room, other weeks someone has a meltdown before and doesn't come. Sometimes I try to call them but usually I don't bother because I have very little success. If we all make it into the room, one kid will sit in the other person's chair or they will start a wild game that makes someone cry. It is a very rare week that everyone is at the table happily throughout kiddush.

We go to wash, half the kids stay at the table and make comments about how they already washed and start piling their plates with salads.

DH makes hamotzi and everyone who is there takes food. Someone will complain that I didn't make enough types of salad. The baby will be either trying to pull off the tablecloth or convince DH to hold him or trying various daredevil tricks.

Finally I finish making whatever salads I'm going to make and wash and sit down. Before I've finished my slice of challah DD5 is insisting I read her parsha questions. Her teacher sends a 2 page newsletter with questions and songs on the back and I have to read the whole thing. Sometimes another child will read their Dvar Torah or more commonly ask me to read it. Sometimes DH will read a story or do a guessing game where he reads a line of the story and we all call out the last word.

Then I go get the soup. Everyone wants something different in their soup or doesn't want soup altogether. When I don't have chicken in the soup (frequently lately, chicken wings are much cheaper) I get a speech about how chicken wings should come without bones and why don't I use different chicken in the soup.

Okay, it's time for the next course! But too often these days there is no next course. If I didn't have time to make kugel, and we don't have chicken, there is nothing else to serve. So I endure another speech about how much they like kugel and how I should have made chicken. If we do have the next course, one or two kids will decide they want it, and everyone else will decide they want dessert.

DH is often getting tired at this point and will often bentch right after the soup is served. He'll take the baby or toddler upstairs to put them to bed. I try to convince everyone that they can have dessert after they bentch and put on pajamas. They usually ignore me and continue playing increasingly wild games around the table. Finally I manage to herd them out of the dining room at start putting away the food while frequently reminding them how to get dessert.

One kid is always "too tired" for dessert and please put hers into a bag for tomorrow. (She is one of the last to fall asleep.)

Shabbos day:

DH does not have a set time to come home. I am disorganized in case that was unclear. So we do not make kiddush until he walks in and announces that he is ready for kiddush. That can be as late as 3 or 4 pm. Either way, I will not be ready. The kids will have eaten breakfast (Shabbos cereal) until lunchtime and then been snacking on kugel or pasta salad or hard boiled eggs.

So about 20 minutes after DH is ready for kiddush, some of us will make it to the dining room. Again, someone will have a meltdown. If their meltdown is bad enough, it will be contagious and the 11yo will be in tears and DH will go to a different room so he doesn't lose his temper.

Someone else will be too engrossed in their book and not interested in coming.

Whoever comes, eventually DH makes kiddush and I bring out a bunch of salads. DH will try to say a Dvar Torah but I'm often the only one interested and there are a lot of interruptions. Then I deal with more complaints about how there's not enough food (nobody likes cholent) and after everyone expresses excitement about the salami there are hardly any takers.

By the end of the meal it's just me, DH, and the baby at the table. I try to chase the kids back to bentch.

We love Shabbos! (Good, plentiful food usually keeps the table happier but cannot prevent the meltdowns.)

amother

Denim

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:56 pm

Ours looks quite chilled.
The only regret I have is not benching together.
Everyone leaves the table before dh because he eats more and sings the zemiors So we Don’t have official ending. But that’s the only thing I’d try to incorporate.

amother

Maroon

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:57 pm

DH tells an interesting & engaging story at the beginning of the meal & the kids sit and listen. After the story, the kids usually go to play or read. My teen daughters also go read on the couch and come to the table whenever they want/as each course is served. The kids all share something about the parsha at various points during the meal. DH likes to sing and talk torah for about 2 hours & we don't expect the kids to sit at the table for that long.

amother

Denim

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 11:58 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

why 3 or 4 pm?

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:01 am

amother Denim wrote:

why 3 or 4 pm?

He likes to daven slower, learn more beforehand, but can't do that during the week. He likes to be at the minyan but daven on his own unrushed timeline afterwards. He also likes to get in his daily shiurim before making kiddush.

If I am organized and ask him to be home earlier he will make the effort, but I usually don't.

amother

Leaf

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:01 am

Maybe your expectations are too high?

For us it is just a nice meal together. We ask the kids to share their divrei torah and they are usually happy to. We ooh and ah over the preschool crafts. We eat good food. The kids leave to play once they're done eating and dh and I usually schmooze a little longer. Sometimes I make a big deal about dessert and that keeps the kids around shmoozing a little longer. Dh is not a zemiros guy so beyond shalom aleichem and eishes chayil theres not much other singing. But that's who he is.

amother

Denim

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:07 am

amother Pewter wrote:

sounds like mine dh but he makes it home earlier. 😆
I actually get annoyed and I’m impressed that you’re chilled. I try to appreciate what it means about him that he takes it seriously. My dh has add and I think that’s part of it
He’s great with the kids so be it

amother

Wandflower

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:20 am

Ages 1-18
* they will fight over the seats
* they will fight over kiddush
* they will fight over who washes for hamotzi first
* they will grab the food and drinks they like the best
* they will forget I ever taught them good manners
* they will try to grab extra dessert
* they sing with my husband sometimes
* they bring their parsha sheets and divrei torah usually
* they bicker over who talks too long
* they will listen if my husband says a story or a dvar torah
* they will try to get away without cleaning up
* they need reminders to bentch
* I don't allow any books by the table or any talk of muktzah or sadness

But they are excited for the meal and I try to prepare things they like. They are happy and satisfied by the end.
I hope they grow up soon. It isn't easy, but it's a wonderful kind of chaos. The family kind.

amother

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:26 am

Wheeeew

Reading through this I do realize that our expectations are too high...& we need to appreciate what we have already established and try to stick to it

amother

Tiffanyblue

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:28 am

5 kids under age of 13 kah
Fighting spilling acting silly
Normal and chilled
Throughout the meal we try to get the ones with parsh booklet to say and review...most times they just wana play...rule is by the meal you eat if u don't want np but no food after....Friday nite im usally so exhausted I clean half the table and bemch before my kids (cuz they playing) and go into bed(hope sounds normal)and my husband and kids clean the rest. ...

amother

Snow

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:42 am

5 kids,
1 - 16
We sit around a shmooze. Sure sometimes there’s fighting, or silliness, irritated or tired and hungry kids (or adults 😉)
But I try to focus on the good parts.
Sometimes we sing, sometimes not. Sometimes it’s everyone, sometimes it’s just my husband, but it’s all ok.
The enjoyable parts are sitting around, talking and laughing together.

Shabbos day we bring out the parsha sheets and have candy for everyone who participate and shares something.

Everyone has to help at some stage during the meal, either bringing food to the table or clearing up.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 12:52 am

5 kids, age 6 months - 7 years.

Not picture perfect but not utter chaos either. We have a rule that you need to stay at the table for the beginning of the course so at the beginning of each course everyone is there and eating, depends on the week that can last anywhere from 10 mins to 45 mins. We read newsletters, ooo and ah over projects, sing a lot (my kids love singing), my husband says a story or dvar Torah. The kids wander off and play but that's fine with me.
We have issues sometimes, grape juice spills or someone interrupts a newsletter or the baby throws her plate, but nu nu, they're healthy kids, I'll take the flying chicken soup and grape juice stained shirts.

#BestBubby

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 1:03 am

I grew up in double digit family.

All kids sat at table for kiddush, hamotzi, fish and soup - about 30 minutes. Then little kids were allowed to go play until dessert.

The older kids stayed for main course of chicken and kugel, someone said their school dvar Torah. We sang 2 zmiros. Sometimes current events discussion.

Then dessert, which little kids came back to the table. We benched outloud. The little kids stayed seated for benching but usually spaced out.

There was sometimes some fighting at the table but rare. We pretty much had a picture book shobbos seuda.

amother

Tan

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 2:35 am

9 kids under 17
We expect everyone over the age of 3 to stay at the table for the entire meal including my son with ADHD.
We keep it really short - like 45 minutes.
I give cholent before Shabbos and then no food until kidush, in the morning breakfast at 8:30 and then no food until kidush. With kids who are less regulated, a proper routine including healthy food at regular times is essential. So when we get to the meal, the kids are ready to eat, not full of snacks.
I make sure that everyone is dressed and davened and the table laid before my husband gets home from shul.
If that means less salads, so be it.
I serve 3 courses for each meal, I serve personal portions so each person gets what I know they like. My husband says a dvar Torah while they are eating each course. The kids share what they learned at school. I give out jellies here and there through the meal to people who are at the table. They stay at the table because they don't know when I'm giving them out.
After desert, we make zimun and my husband bentches. I don't bentch until he's done so I can keep available for the kids, they are expected to stay at the table until my husband finished bentching.

When I notice people are getting antsy, I'll bring a fun story, an interesting riddle, or the next course.

the interesting thing is that I put out nuts and chocolates after the meal and virtually every time the kids stay and shmooze, sing (apart from one of my teens who is going through a sleep-all-the-time-except-when-with-friends stage) learn etc.

I went through my rough time and decided that I had to consciously work on making Shabbos meals work. I sat and made a list of where it goes wrong - when it shleps, when the kids don't like the food, when there is nothing interesting happening and actively worked to solve those problems. Like we have set places around the table so there is no arguing over who sits where. Like I don't serve sweet drinks because it makes some of my kids hyperactive. etc.

#BestBubby

Sun, Oct 29 2023, 3:08 am

That is very pro active parenting Tan.

As a SEIT, I have to analyze what works
And what doesn't.