Teaching children safety around dogs

amother

Sat, Nov 04 2023, 9:48 pm

We live in a neighborhood with a lot of dogs, and it's not uncommon for dogs to get out and be wandering the streets without their owners. I don't think these are stray dogs, just dogs that got loose.

My kids are getting to the ages where they can walk to friends' houses on their own on Shabbos and I want to teach them what to do if they come across a loose dog, so that they don't panic and start running. What is the best thing to do in this situation? I know to teach them to walk calmly and not run. Should they look the dog in the eye or avoid eye contact? Anything else to know?

amother

Azure

Sat, Nov 04 2023, 10:10 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

Don’t have advice about dog safety but you’re a smart mama!
Also, gentile neighbors sometimes get insulted when our kids are scared of their dogs.
My neighborhood used to have lots of dogs before more yidden moved in

My sisters neighbor was always upset that my sister kept her kids away. My son was there for shabbos and yes he was bitten unprovoked- it was horrible!! The neighbor was walking the dog and the dog ran ahead and bit him.

Personally, unless loose dogs are very rare and it’s only ever small dogs I wouldn’t let me kids walk alone.

My son was very traumatized (we bh took him soon after to a puppy farm and made sure he interacted with other pleasant dogs and he’s ok) and scars were on his arms not his face but they are still there.

amother

Sat, Nov 04 2023, 11:56 pm

amother Azure wrote:

First of all so sorry about what happened to your son!!

I'll tell you the truth, the bolded is definitely what I'd feel more comfortable with but I know I can be overprotective and that it's probably age appropriate to start allowing them to walk on their own.

It's not SUPER common, I guess. But I'd say at least once or twice a year I'll see a loose dog. When I'm with my kids, I keep them calm, we walk away, and BH it's always been ok.

amother

Navy

Sat, Nov 04 2023, 11:59 pm

I would be really really upset if dogs here walked around without a leash.
could be Im overreacting but it really scares me. They could be very cute and calm but they are still a dog. It is against the law and I would probably call the police or someone, they must make sure that their dogs are on a leash or gates in at all times.
This is not a jewish thing, it's the law.

amother

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 12:01 am

amother Navy wrote:

I agree- I think it is beyond irresponsible for a dog owner to let their dog roam around unsupervised without a leash.
If it's Shabbos though, calling the police is not really an option.

amother

Navy

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 12:05 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree- I think it is beyond irresponsible for a dog owner to let their dog roam around unsupervised without a leash.
If it's Shabbos though, calling the police is not really an option.

You can call after shabbos to report the incident. They can look into it and give a warning of fine to the owner, however law enforcment deals with it.

And it's also a good idea to teach your kids how to stay safe. You can do both.

I'm sorry that this is happening. I would be a mess. I don't do well with dogs even when they aren't loose.

amother

Steelblue

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 12:19 am

I grew up with dogs, and my parents still have dogs. They live upstate with a lot of land and have tons of (big) dogs (coonhounds, cane corsos, dobbermans....)so my kids also grew up with them. As you can tell I didnt grow up typical Wink

BH living in town nd you would never tell. But my kids know you never go up to a strange dog. You never run in front of a dog. If you see the owner with the dog and if you want to pet the dog, you always ask first and you approach crouched down at their level.

amother

Stonewash

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 12:35 am

My kids love dogs and would love to have one, but I keep refusing because I don't want the responsibility that would undoubtedly fall on me. Well, that's the main reason, but I also don't like the idea of a pet that can roam freely around the house. I do let them pet dogs on the street. They know that we have to ask the owner first and make sure the dog is friendly. Then they let the dog sniff their fist to introduce themselves and only then can they pet the dog. When it comes to stray dogs, however, that's a different story. I would teach your children to safely and calmly cross the street if they see a dog without any apparent owner. Better to keep a safe distance just in case.

Rappel

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 1:14 am

amother OP wrote:

Yikes I hope this isn't true 😬
Unfortunately they do have a fear of dogs.

I want to give a longer explanation of dogs mentality, but I don't have the time to type.

In short:
An ordinary, healthy dog wants to protect their people/territory
People who move in jerky, sneaky movements (unfortunately, also people whom are scared do this) look suspicious.
The dog barks or growls to warn the "suspicious" person not to hurt anyone
The person gets more scared.

The cycle continues.

-------
Caveat: A dog who has been abused, or whom comes from herd guardian genes, may be unduly suspicious of even normal behaviors, and may also bark at ordinary people

amother

Oatmeal

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 1:21 am

There's an interesting Frieda Vizel YouTube video about Jews and fear of dogs and an interview with a professor who has researched this. Too long to write out. But rappel is correct. A lot goes back to Jews being traveling salesmen or peddlers in small towns or rural homes, where watch dogs could be aggressive to strangers, and they had to be wary of dogs and quite naturally developed a healthy fear of dogs. This was transmitted to their kids and became a repeating cycle. This was a well known enough phenomena, Jews being afraid of dogs, that there was research done on this early in the 1900s and at least one book written on it in the 1920s or 30s.

LovesHashem

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 1:28 am

Rappel wrote:

There's also more aggressive than ve dogs and dogs who are neglected and aren't given training.

Most people train their dogs, they are trained to use the bathroom outside, not to park constantly, and that human beings aren't a threat.

A dog that is nice and well trained may still bark at you because a lot of dogs have random dislikes that are suspicious of. A family member has a dog who hates anything on wheels, so if you are on a scooter, bike, roller blades etc - he will bark. Not because he wants to bite you, he's never bitten anyone ever but because he feels threatened by your bike.

I was at the park on shabbos and my kids were petting a dog who began barking at some chareidi kid passerby, a young 13 year old. Turn out her dog is very suspicious of black hats. Again, trained dog, friendly, doesn't bite etc.

Dogs often bark if they see another dog or cat or squirrel.

You can teach your kids also that just because a dog is barking doesn't mean it wants to go bite you.

If you do ever want to pet a dog, do not come from behind, come from where it can see you and put out your hand for it to smell first.

amother

Navy

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 1:42 am

Rappel wrote:

You might be right, but I am afraid of dogs. It's not illegal to be afraid. You can rationalize the dogs behavior but it's the pet owners responsibility to keep the pet away from people. Not the people's responsibility to behave a certain way next to dogs. I can be "dan lcaf zchus" the dog why he behaves the way he does, but I don't want to meet a loose dog.
It's good to know how to behave next to a loose dog in case of emergency, but dog owners need to be responsible.
I keep on being hugged every time I'm posting on this thread. I wonder why. I'm taking it as a genuine hug for being afraid of dogs.

Rappel

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 2:03 am

amother Navy wrote:

My explanation was in order to teach people with dog-fears why they often get barked at, and what the solution is -- essentially, act normally and decisively.

I know a lady whom, at the age of 43, decided to work on her fear of dogs. It's been magnificent to watch her transform from a fearful, cringing person into a confident and happy person. She doesn't fear what won't hurt her, and she now is moving forward in many areas of her life.

amother

Vanilla

Sun, Nov 05 2023, 4:02 am

amother Azure wrote:

Where in the world do you have loose dogs! Dogs biting!

I grew up oot snd my neighborhood has very few frum Jews. Almost everyone else has dogs. People have electric fences so dogs ran in the front without a visible fence, but they cant get out.....took a while for visitors to get used to that! Need to teach kids to stat out. However I never saw a dog outside their fence not on a leash. I never heard of anyone getting bitten growing up .

As an adult, one friend was bitten by her neighbors dog while she was visiting and that dog was put down. (Killed). I think they have to do this to dogs who bite. You should report the bite. Im surprised the dr didnt say anything.

But ive only heard of someone getting bitten once.