Bright child struggling with Gemara

amother

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 1:35 pm

My 11 year old is BH a very bright child. He has always been doing well in school and flying through all the Chol and Kodesh lessons. Learning Gemara has always been so difficult for him- he just doesn’t get it. He can’t focus on it and his marks are far below marks he has ever gotten in anything.

Is this something that’s common and/or is it that he needs to be taught Gemara in a different method?

Welcome all advice and ideas! Thanks!

amother

Pewter

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 2:16 pm

Is there a very experienced rebbe who can sit with him and evaluate? There are a number of possibilities - ranging from mild ADHD across to a sight issue (gemara is much smaller print) or a reading comprehension issue. No one can advise you without assessing properly.
https://www.drgaddouer.com/
You could try this dr. We found him very helpful.

amother

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 2:26 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

Thank you- all very helpful advice. I’m in the UK so can’t look into that doctor but I will research locally.

amother

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 3:07 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

You can speak to him on the phone and see what he recommends. He speaks English.

That’s so helpful- thank you!

amother

Topaz

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 7:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

Does he wear glasses?
My son had the exact same issue. Did so well in everything but struggled with Gemara. Hard to believe but it was his eyesight. As soon as he got the right glasses, he did well again. Something about the way the Gemara is formatted really made him struggle.

Edited to add
I'm in the UK too
We saw Dr Ionais Tompazos under the NHS in Alexander Kobrin opticians. He said it's a common issue with Jewish boys.

amother

Obsidian

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 9:08 pm

Unpopular opinion, but we start teaching gemara too young. I know many boys, including my own, who struggled in the beginning and didn't really get the hang of it until 13-14 years old. Most 11 year old brains are not developed enough to really grasp the subtlety of gemara logic and not getting at this is more of a sign that WE are wrong than that there is something wrong with the boys.

amother

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 4:31 am

amother Topaz wrote:

Thank you so much- he does wear glasses and a very specific type of lense…

I wonder if that could be causing it. Does the wrong lense just make it hard to concentrate?

amother

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 4:33 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

Boy oy boy do I agree it’s too young. And not visual at all other than text.

But if he has to learn it now then I want him to succeed best he can…

amother

Topaz

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:26 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank you so much- he does wear glasses and a very specific type of lense…

I wonder if that could be causing it. Does the wrong lense just make it hard to concentrate?

Who prescribed it?
Maybe worth getting a second opinion.

Mine got glasses from Silverman's first but then got frequent headaches so I tried at Kobrin for a second opinion and saw instant results bh

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:29 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank you so much- he does wear glasses and a very specific type of lense…

I wonder if that could be causing it. Does the wrong lense just make it hard to concentrate?

Also check functional vision- how his eyes work together.

amother

Mon, Nov 13 2023, 7:26 am

amother Topaz wrote:

Who prescribed it?
Maybe worth getting a second opinion.

Mine got glasses from Silverman's first but then got frequent headaches so I tried at Kobrin for a second opinion and saw instant results bh

We have seen a consultant after his regular optician so I think they are definitely right for him…

SYA

Mon, Nov 13 2023, 9:39 am

Try the Visual Gemara by Torah For Children. It breaks down all the skills. Visual and interactive.

Currently, they only have on Tefillas Hashachar from Mesechta Berachos, but it gives a positive taste of learning Gemara and opens the way how to learn other Gemaras. They also have a Visual Introduction to Gemara which is on the history and system of Gemara. Helps understand how Gemara works and where it fits in Torah SheBaal Peh.

Here’s the link
https://www.torah4children.com.....79002