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-> Parenting our children
-> Preschoolers
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amother
OP
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 Sun, Nov 12 2023, 7:55 am
My precious, precocious DD does not listen. I'll ask her to do something, or remind her of a rule she knows of and she'll look me in the eye, say no, and do exactly what she was doing. This happens both when I ask her to do something (please put your plate in the garbage) and when I remind her of a house rule (we don't bang toys on people's heads).
I praise her to the skies when she listens, or even semi-listens, which is pretty often when she is in the mood, but I don't know how to handle the nos. If she really keeps not listening I put her in time out, and then we talk about why she had to have a time out and she totally understands what she did wrong.
Please help me, I need some real, practical advice! (Yes she is my oldest...and yes I see a lot of positive as a result of her stubbornness)
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mushkamothers
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:01 am
Shes listening. She's just not obeying
You're making it a power struggle. Rule #1 the child is always the winner in a power struggle, by default.
Lay off the pressure and stop making it a battle of wills. It only brings out her own sense of counterwill
So "I see a plate on the floor!" Turn around and do something else so she can pick it up on her own
You can also be more playful. "I'm going to close my eyes and I wonder if I can count to 3 and when I open it, the plate will be gone... what!!!"
She probably doesn't need so many reminders and nagging anyways. Seriously lay off. Stop nitpicking. Let things slide for a few days. As you say she knows what to do. So she doesn't need all your reminders anyways.
Also, time outs reinforce this "I don't listen to mommy" narrative and in general I think are a useless and outdated technique
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:06 am
| mushkamothers wrote: | Shes listening. She's just not obeying
You're making it a power struggle. Rule #1 the child is always the winner in a power struggle, by default.
Lay off the pressure and stop making it a battle of wills. It only brings out her own sense of counterwill
So "I see a plate on the floor!" Turn around and do something else so she can pick it up on her own
You can also be more playful. "I'm going to close my eyes and I wonder if I can count to 3 and when I open it, the plate will be gone... what!!!"
She probably doesn't need so many reminders and nagging anyways. Seriously lay off. Stop nitpicking. Let things slide for a few days. As you say she knows what to do. So she doesn't need all your reminders anyways.
Also, time outs reinforce this "I don't listen to mommy" narrative and in general I think are a useless and outdated technique |
I don't know that I'm nitpicking...things like banging a toy on someone else's head, jumping on the couch, etc I can't just ignore. I do let a lot slide which also bothers me (she walks all over the house eating even though she knows she shouldn't. I ignore it at this point and will get back to it when she's older, for example)
I can be fun and playful for some things, but not for others
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giftedmom
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:26 am
| amother OP wrote: | I don't know that I'm nitpicking...things like banging a toy on someone else's head, jumping on the couch, etc I can't just ignore. I do let a lot slide which also bothers me (she walks all over the house eating even though she knows she shouldn't. I ignore it at this point and will get back to it when she's older, for example)
I can be fun and playful for some things, but not for others |
You’re expecting a lot of self-control and obedience from a toddler
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amother
Celeste
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:37 am
| amother OP wrote: | I don't know that I'm nitpicking...things like banging a toy on someone else's head, jumping on the couch, etc I can't just ignore. I do let a lot slide which also bothers me (she walks all over the house eating even though she knows she shouldn't. I ignore it at this point and will get back to it when she's older, for example)
I can be fun and playful for some things, but not for others |
So for those things remove the child from the situation without making it a fight. "uhoh, you're jumping on the playroom couch, I guess you can't be in the playroom right now"- pick up and carry to a different room.
"Uhoh, if you're hitting your brother we can't hang out in the room with you, baby and I are going to the kitchen. Let us know when you're ready to play nicely"
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:22 am
| giftedmom wrote: | | You’re expecting a lot of self-control and obedience from a toddler |
Ok, so what should I do when she does things that aren't acceptable?
(I don't know that I agree with what you're saying, but I'd still like to hear practical tips and strategies, thank you!)
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:24 am
| amother Celeste wrote: | So for those things remove the child from the situation without making it a fight. "uhoh, you're jumping on the playroom couch, I guess you can't be in the playroom right now"- pick up and carry to a different room.
"Uhoh, if you're hitting your brother we can't hang out in the room with you, baby and I are going to the kitchen. Let us know when you're ready to play nicely" |
Thank you. I do this but not enough, I'm going to try it.
What about for non-dangerous but still not ok things, like throwing pretzels across the room or not letting me clean her runny nose?
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:29 am
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First and foremost how do you other amothers know that this isn’t her first child? Were you all perfect mothers who knew what to do? I’m pretty sure not. Op is learning and growing.
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giftedmom
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:31 am
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, so what should I do when she does things that aren't acceptable?
(I don't know that I agree with what you're saying, but I'd still like to hear practical tips and strategies, thank you!) |
What the others said. Physically set the boundaries yourself instead of expecting her to do so.
(Sigh, our oldests always look so big to us. I think I’m still guilty of expecting too much of mine)
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:34 am
| amother Snowflake wrote: | | First and foremost how do you other amothers know that this isn’t her first child? Were you all perfect mothers who knew what to do? I’m pretty sure not. Op is learning and growing. |
Thank you! Yes it is my first as I wrote in the OP. I don't have good role models in this particular regard so I'm crowdsourcing practical tips, because my current approach isn't working.
I try hard to do the fun, playful approach but sometimes I say something that is pretty basic and I just need her to listen. She usually does, but when she doesn't I have no tools in my arsenal besides time out, so I'd like to learn
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:35 am
| giftedmom wrote: | What the others said. Physically set the boundaries yourself instead of expecting her to do so.
(Sigh, our oldests always look so big to us. I think I’m still guilty of expecting too much of mine) |
Ok, I hear that. I'll see how I can implement that, thanks!
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amother
Trillium
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:49 am
I have a 3 year old daughter that does the same. I don’t have any way to control her behavior, and I’ve learnt that trying to control is wrong. It really does make it worse.
If you get into a power struggle then you are an instant loser, not necessarily because she wins but because even if you do win, you now have a daughter that lost. Take a deep breath and let go of the rope.
Focusing on the positive will get you there, but meanwhile there also needs to be boundaries. What I am willing to do or allow for. If she hits other kids she cannot be next to kids until she calms down, in whichever way you can accomplish it. Without anger or yelling. If she jumps on the couch, you physically hold her in place until she stops. Again, without anger or yelling. Just a very calm but firm “I need to hold on to you right now so the couch doesn’t get ruined.”
Ignoring what she does doesn’t mean being ok with it. It can still be a house rule, you just don’t need to see everything. Aim for the majority of the interactions to be positive.
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amother
Fern
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:55 am
Janet Lansbury has a great blog and her book No Bad Kids is a game changer for exactly this issue.
Good luck.
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amother
Carnation
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 2:16 pm
| amother Trillium wrote: | I have a 3 year old daughter that does the same. I don’t have any way to control her behavior, and I’ve learnt that trying to control is wrong. It really does make it worse.
If you get into a power struggle then you are an instant loser, not necessarily because she wins but because even if you do win, you now have a daughter that lost. Take a deep breath and let go of the rope.
Focusing on the positive will get you there, but meanwhile there also needs to be boundaries. What I am willing to do or allow for. If she hits other kids she cannot be next to kids until she calms down, in whichever way you can accomplish it. Without anger or yelling. If she jumps on the couch, you physically hold her in place until she stops. Again, without anger or yelling. Just a very calm but firm “I need to hold on to you right now so the couch doesn’t get ruined.”
Ignoring what she does doesn’t mean being ok with it. It can still be a house rule, you just don’t need to see everything. Aim for the majority of the interactions to be positive. |
I have an oldest about this age too, and I found that holding her in place also instantly becomes a power struggle, and there's only so long you can hold a wiggling, kicking, screaming kid. What I found works better for me in such cases is to just lift her down off the couch, with a simple, unemotional "We don't jump on the couch". And yes, she'll go back on, and I'll take her down, over and over, quietly and firmly repeating my line, until she just finds it boring and pointless and stops doing it. Sometimes it only takes 3 times, sometimes it takes 10, but it has never not worked. There's only so much energy she has either, and eventually she loses the cheishek for it.
I feel like the instances where she's doing things like that and I need to stop her, I am confident in how I'm handling it. I have a harder time when I ask her to do things and she simply says no. Like, go brush your teeth, or bring me your backpack. I do the fun silly route as much as I can, and I definitely find that it works a lot but sometimes there's too much else going on for me to go into that whole route, I just need her to quickly go do the thing, and she won't, and then it turns into a very frustrating little moment. Haven't figured that one out yet.
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amother
Seablue
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 2:34 pm
| amother OP wrote: | My precious, precocious DD does not listen. I'll ask her to do something, or remind her of a rule she knows of and she'll look me in the eye, say no, and do exactly what she was doing. This happens both when I ask her to do something (please put your plate in the garbage) and when I remind her of a house rule (we don't bang toys on people's heads).
I praise her to the skies when she listens, or even semi-listens, which is pretty often when she is in the mood, but I don't know how to handle the nos. If she really keeps not listening I put her in time out, and then we talk about why she had to have a time out and she totally understands what she did wrong.
Please help me, I need some real, practical advice! (Yes she is my oldest...and yes I see a lot of positive as a result of her stubbornness) |
She’s getting the attention she is seeking
If you are going to do time out let her just apologize and move on. No need to discuss
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amother
Trillium
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 2:47 pm
| amother Carnation wrote: | I have an oldest about this age too, and I found that holding her in place also instantly becomes a power struggle, and there's only so long you can hold a wiggling, kicking, screaming kid. What I found works better for me in such cases is to just lift her down off the couch, with a simple, unemotional "We don't jump on the couch". And yes, she'll go back on, and I'll take her down, over and over, quietly and firmly repeating my line, until she just finds it boring and pointless and stops doing it. Sometimes it only takes 3 times, sometimes it takes 10, but it has never not worked. There's only so much energy she has either, and eventually she loses the cheishek for it.
I feel like the instances where she's doing things like that and I need to stop her, I am confident in how I'm handling it. I have a harder time when I ask her to do things and she simply says no. Like, go brush your teeth, or bring me your backpack. I do the fun silly route as much as I can, and I definitely find that it works a lot but sometimes there's too much else going on for me to go into that whole route, I just need her to quickly go do the thing, and she won't, and then it turns into a very frustrating little moment. Haven't figured that one out yet. |
Yes I can definitely relate. Personally if it’s not very important I would just say ‘That’s not behaving’ and move on to the next thing without giving it too much attention.
When I’m rushing out and it takes 20 minutes to get her to just go to the bathroom and put on her jacket and shoes it’s very frustrating. I try to adjust my expectations but arghhh it’s hard.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 3:10 pm
| amother Carnation wrote: | I have an oldest about this age too, and I found that holding her in place also instantly becomes a power struggle, and there's only so long you can hold a wiggling, kicking, screaming kid. What I found works better for me in such cases is to just lift her down off the couch, with a simple, unemotional "We don't jump on the couch". And yes, she'll go back on, and I'll take her down, over and over, quietly and firmly repeating my line, until she just finds it boring and pointless and stops doing it. Sometimes it only takes 3 times, sometimes it takes 10, but it has never not worked. There's only so much energy she has either, and eventually she loses the cheishek for it.
I feel like the instances where she's doing things like that and I need to stop her, I am confident in how I'm handling it. I have a harder time when I ask her to do things and she simply says no. Like, go brush your teeth, or bring me your backpack. I do the fun silly route as much as I can, and I definitely find that it works a lot but sometimes there's too much else going on for me to go into that whole route, I just need her to quickly go do the thing, and she won't, and then it turns into a very frustrating little moment. Haven't figured that one out yet. |
Yes this thank you for explaining it better than me!! This is my issue too. What do I do?
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amother
Celeste
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 4:39 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you. I do this but not enough, I'm going to try it.
What about for non-dangerous but still not ok things, like throwing pretzels across the room or not letting me clean her runny nose? |
"We don't throw pretzels" and take the pretzels away. Nose isn't worth the fight. Just swipe in when you can.
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BrisketBoss
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 4:54 pm
Other people said good things, I just also want to point out that the idea that you need to praise kids for 'listening' in order to have them continue doing so is self-reinforcing, since it erodes their intrinsic motivation.
Just as surely as punishment, praise makes it about what the parent wants instead of about the thing and the child picks up on that.
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BrisketBoss
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Sun, Nov 12 2023, 4:59 pm
Part of behavior is the age. That will change with time; this is just a phase. And the other part is factors in the child's life that she won't be able to express to you if you ask her. As you said yourself, she understands that she's not supposed to do X and Y. So time out doesn't teach anything. She just can't always stop herself. She's not sure why she does what she does. And since it increases feelings of disconnectedness, timeout can make behavior worse.
'The relationship is the thing.' One of my fave parenting quotes
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