Anglo Chareidi Communities?

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 6:50 pm

Can anyone recommend a community in EY that would work for a yeshivish family moving from OOT America?

We started out in EY when we were married and then eventually moved back to the US after several years for parnassa and to be closer to family.
We have always dreamed about moving back to EY, but were told by our Posek that it would be too hard for our kids (they're aged 18-6).

Now things are a little different and it looks like it might be a good time to get outta here. Besides worries about parnassa, I'm concerned about my kids fitting into the Israeli Chareidi system, especially my 10 year-old son who struggles in learning and is extremely athletic. Is there a place for him??

Any suggestions on where to begin looking? Any advice on integrating? Some seem to think it's impossible.... Sad

If you have personal experience making aliyah with older yeshivish kids, please share! TYIA

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 11:07 pm

Op here, thanks. That's pretty much the only community I know about, but there must be others out there, no?

I've heard that either the kids never really integrate into Israeli society and sort of stay in Anglo limbo, or they go OTD. Neither option sounds particularly promising.

amother

PlumPink

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 1:05 am

amother OP wrote:

especially my 10 year-old son who struggles in learning and is extremely athletic. Is there a place for him??

This is a very real issue.
If you want standard cheider, yeshiva ketana, then no there is no place for him.
If you will go more open it will be easier but it isn't standard chareidi.

Personally, I would not bring a child with this profile to EY.

amother

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 1:16 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

What does "more open" mean practically? How can there be no acceptable yeshiva for a good kid like this? Families with boys who aren't strong learners can't move to EY??

Reality

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 1:45 am

amother OP wrote:

What does "more open" mean practically? How can there be no acceptable yeshiva for a good kid like this? Families with boys who aren't strong learners can't move to EY??

Of course there are. You need to send this son to a chareidi school that has secular education. It's a smaller niche but it exists.

You say you are OOT yeshivish. How yeshivish are you? Do you want your son to have a secular education? Look into Netzach or Darchei Noam. Both open minded chareidi schools and the boys play sports during recess and after school chugim.

mudpies

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 2:33 am

No personal experience here, we moved here before we had kids. Still been around and know lots of families so putting in my .02

There are communities here that have English speakers and are very welcoming. You might want to try joining Yoel Berman's googlegroup aviraderetzyisroel@groups.io and finding out more from there (or reading his book Living in the Land, that might also be a good resource).

RBS is a great place for anglos making aliyah with families. I know many ppl there who are normal, yeshivish, and have raised wonderful families. I have friends who were raised there, now married, and are normal wholesome ppl. I also know ppl who moved there as older teens and are perfectly fine. Don't write it off just because you hear of some cases. Everyone speaks about the issues and why would you hear about all the normal ppl it worked out fine for? Keep in mind also that RBS has expanded exponentially and it's no longer the small, anglo-only RBS A that it used to be. There's Alef (which is also much bigger and has lots of ppl who could be defined as 'Yeshivish OOT'), Gimmel, Daled, and Hei is also now getting a nice crowd.

You can also try a place like Maale Amos or something small and comfortable like that. These days there are English speakers in so many small communities. Kedai to check them out if you're genuinely interested in this.

Get a feel of what you're interested in, and then contact some ppl living there so you can ask specific questions.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 2:50 am

amother OP wrote:

If you have personal experience making aliyah with older yeshivish kids, please share! TYIA

Karmiel. We have a school that sounds like it would fit your son. It IS moving further right, but you're son is old enough that he's "safe". The teachers are amazing and they are very focused on derech eretz and on each individual boy. I've been super impressed so far. And they have a nice field for playing sports.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 3:53 am

I'm in a regular Israeli chareidi neighborhood and I agree that I would not put your 10 yo in such a cheder. I have a 9yo (my oldest) and from what I've seen a kid who doesn't learn well and is very into sports would not fit in comfortably there. In my ds's cheder, many boys kick around a ball at recess, but they're not really "into" sports, and they're not encouraged to be. After cheder many of them go to a learning program in the shul. I think that's typical of Israeli chareidi boys.

But from what I've heard about RBS, there are schools there for him. I think the names were mentioned above. More OOT yeshivish type places with a lot of English and Americans. Definitely sounds better, at least for him. Like someone above said, RBS has expanded a lot and has many different types of communities now. Maybe you can choose somewhere less American for your family and still send at least this kid (maybe also other teens) to school in the more American areas. But some of the newer sections I think mostly very young families, so make sure to find somewhere you fit in in terms of that, too.

Hope you find a great place for you and your family!

amother

PlumPink

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 4:59 am

amother OP wrote:

What does "more open" mean practically? How can there be no acceptable yeshiva for a good kid like this? Families with boys who aren't strong learners can't move to EY??

I'm going to get flack for this.
The standard cheider, yeshiva ketana is focused on strong learners. There are yeshivos for boys who have a harder time learning but the focus is on helping them to learn not finding their areas of strength. The boys may go to gym, play ball, swim etc but it's more just for fun and they're not into the rules, competitive games etc.

Schools like Netzach etc mentioned above are not catering to standard yeshivish

Of course you can move to EY if you want to but you will have a hard time finding a school that will give this child the exact blend you are looking for.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:13 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

This matches my understanding, as I mentioned above. You do not want to go anywhere typical Israeli chareidi. My dh grew up in Israel mostly, and moved to OOT US for half a year. He was shocked by the focus on sports. He'd never been exposed to that here in Israel. It's just not part of the chareidi culture. They play ball, but they don't really know sports (or value them). At least as their societal ideal. Some boys I'm sure are very into soccer in some places. But very different from the US.

Success10

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:36 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

It's definitely not a part of the culture. But that doesn't mean an ahtletic boy can't find an outlet for his energy within the chareidi framework. And certainly within the more Anglo communities.

Regarding him not being a strong learner, obviously not all boys are good learners here. The culture does push them to go into long term learning after age 18, and it's more complicated for those boys who are not cut out for it. But the culture is changing and there are growing opportunities for higher education for those that are not going to be in kollel.

My only hesitation would be if he's going to catch on to the language if he already struggles with learning. And to join the chareidi schools where the Torah learning is already far ahead of their counterparts on the same age level in chu"l.

amother

Peach

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:39 am

amother OP wrote:

What does "more open" mean practically? How can there be no acceptable yeshiva for a good kid like this? Families with boys who aren't strong learners can't move to EY??

Sports are looked down upon in the chareidi world. They play soccer during re cess sometimes or in their free time but not bigger kids, and it's looked at as something inpraropriate that made lead to going otd.

LovesHashem

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:41 am

Reality wrote:

Netzach is not chareidi by any means. A BY high school won't look at a girl from Netzach.

LovesHashem

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:42 am

amother OP wrote:

Okay those cases are a minority. That's mainly people who move here not doing enough research and who don't want to change themselves and settle to pick a system.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 5:49 am

Success10 wrote:

Right, I said maybe one of the more American schools in RBS would be a good fit for him. My concern was this is not just an athletic kid. It sounds like he is a kid who has kind of floated through elementary school in the US and succeeded socially/emotionally because he is good at sports. Meaning it was a substitute for learning well. That I think does not exist for chareidim here EXCEPT in schools with an American culture. (That's my impression based on the first post. I could be off.)