Le chaim. Vort. Tenayim. Irusin ?! Why so many

imaima

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:51 pm

Why so many words snd what is the difference? Why do people need a „private“ celebration before a public celebration?

Please explain.
I had both vort and le chayim but they were in different cities

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:55 pm

We had a brief L'Chaim with just us, mechutanim, siblings and grandparents - so we could meet for a little bit at the engagement, just close family, in a quieter, closer setting. I had some hot food and drinks out, and encouraged everyone to eat, because at the Vort you are so busy with all the guests and it's a long night!

We had the Vort immediately after, so we all headed to hall right after the L'Chaim.

amother

Lightblue

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:57 pm

I think the idea of doing a vort later is so people can plan to come. The lchaim typically no one except immediate family knows about in advance. Now though it’s become such a thing that so many people know about and plan to come to the lchaim…

amother

Rainbow

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:59 pm

Doesn't everyone do tenayim? The only difference is many do tenayim at the wedding, not before. Never heard of erusin done separate from chuppah nowadays.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:06 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

Doesn't everyone do tenayim? The only difference is many do tenayim at the wedding, not before. Never heard of erusin done separate from chuppah nowadays.

No one I know does tenayim (even my Chassidish relatives don't.)

ETA I mean tenayim at engagement. Of course, it's done right before the Chuppah.

Last edited by Chayalle on Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Rainbow

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:09 pm

Chayalle wrote:

No one I know does tenayim (even my Chassidish relatives don't.)

There's no tenayim at the chasunah?

lamplighter

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:09 pm

The lchaim is casual and immediately after the engagement. Just family and maybe a few very close friends. The vort (in chabad we call it a lchaim) is a planned event in a small hall or shul for everyone to come wish Mazal tov.

imaima

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:13 pm

lamplighter wrote:

But how are people ready?

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:24 pm

Chayalle wrote:

No one I know does tenayim (even my Chassidish relatives don't.)

Most chassidim I know have done tanayim instead of a vort. I don’t know any chassidim who don’t do it before the wedding.

amother

Charcoal

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:29 pm

imaima wrote:

But how are people ready?

I am from a chassiddish background- this is my experience:
Lechaim is done with immediate family- ie parents and siblings that can come. Meanwhile everyone starts calling, texting,wattsapping mazal tov so and so is engaged. Sometimes food is prepared and people start arriving . This can go on until midnight. And usually when someone has nice big house that can accommodate.
We kept it small. In fact the siblings sometimes did not come because they couldn’t travel.
The vort or tenoyim- is a formal affair in a hall with invites. And can be that same week or later.
Vort is a party -
Tenoyim is more serious with washing for a meal- many have stopped signing tenoyim at the engagement party and wait to do so right before chupa.
Irusin is hebrew for engagement- so you would hear that from Israelis.

amother

Dill

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:32 pm

Chayalle wrote:

No one I know does tenayim (even my Chassidish relatives don't.)

Chassidim I know definitely do tenayim at the vort. Litvishe do it at the wedding.

dankbar

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:35 pm

Nobody I know washes for a meal these days anymore for a tenoyim.

It's mostly come and go.

Where I live it's mostly mainstreamed, small affair, with takanos, and hall makes copy paste Simcha for everyone.

Nobody can bring any food in.

Not too many gifts either anymore

Some chassidus don't write tenoyim then.

pause

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:45 pm

AFAIK all chassidim do a tenoyim, only question is if they do it early on as part of the engagement or at the chasuna before the chuppa.

kenz

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:48 pm

pause wrote:

AFAIK all chassidim do a tenoyim, only question is if they do it early on as part of the engagement or at the chasuna before the chuppa.

Everyone does tena’im, just most people do it at the chasunah these days. There’s no such thing as a Yiddishe marriage without tena’im.

imaima

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:09 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Most chassidim I know have done tanayim instead of a vort. I don’t know any chassidim who don’t do it before the wedding.

What is the difference Between the two, other than the name?

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:13 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Most chassidim I know have done tanayim instead of a vort. I don’t know any chassidim who don’t do it before the wedding.

They still call it a tenayim, but my Chassidish relatives told me they no longer actually do tenayim. It's just the name that stuck.

imaima

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:14 pm

lamplighter wrote:

Which people and ready for what?

Maybe I should start earlier.
Let’s say, the boy and the girl are serious. The proposal is imminent. Do people on both sides start thinking about cooking or buying food and drinks because maybe le chayim will happen soon?
The the boy proposes and she says yes.
Le chaim same night with food? Le chaim in a couple of days?