No socks? Is it a new trend

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:39 am

Recently I noticed woman going without socks or very thin pantyhose giving that look, also going with long skirts and just bobby socks with out any pantyhose . It was around untill this fall of 23 obv. its cold now... did you notice this? is it a new trend? or is it my imagination?

amother

Electricblue

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:44 am

SuperWify wrote:

This question is so naively sweet. What can I say.

No, not everything wears socks or tights. This is nothing new.

Yes but I have seen more and more people wearing just short socks, many of whom I wouldn't have expected to skip tights.

amother

Electricblue

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:48 am

SuperWify wrote:

It’s not a Halacha to wear anything on your legs. 60 years ago no one did.

I didn't say it was a halachic issue, but it is minhag hamakom in some places (including where I live).

It's just interesting to observe changes.

Perly1

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:52 am

SuperWify wrote:

It’s not a Halacha to wear anything on your legs. 60 years ago no one did.

It's the level of minhag hamokom to wear tights. Basically in your country whatever modest, elegant people would wear becomes a chiyuv for us to wear.

For example in the UK the Queen wouldn't be seen without tights. Or in Afghanistan (I wouldn't recommend a visit LOL

) the chiyuv for a Jewish lady would be to wear a burka.

In a hot African country where no-one wears tights then I don't think there's an obligation to.

Basically the Jewish woman should be seen to be modest.

Last edited by Perly1 on Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total

SuperWify

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:52 am

amother Electricblue wrote:

I didn't say it was a halachic issue, but it is minhag hamakom in some places (including where I live).

It's just interesting to observe changes.

I understand that but if someone is wearing a maxi skirt what would be the problem with short or no socks?

amother

Snapdragon

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:56 am

Huh? This is not new at all

I'm regular in town yeshivish and I've been wearing long skirts and shorts socks since forever. And if I'm just running out to wait at a bus stop or a corner grocery I might wear crocs without socks

Perly1

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:56 am

SuperWify wrote:

I understand that but if someone is wearing a maxi skirt what would be the problem with short or no socks?

According to R' Falk ztl and many Rabbonim there's an issue with wearing maxi skirts. I can't remember exactly why but possibly chukas hagoyim or looking too casual. But I would need to ask my daughter!

Last edited by Perly1 on Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Daphne

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:56 am

Perly1 wrote:

That's not really how mihag hamakom works. It's not based on what the queen oor elegant people wear, it's based on the norm in your community. And it's not a country wide rule. It's based on comminity.

amother

Daphne

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:58 am

Perly1 wrote:

According to R' Falk and many Rabbonim there's an issue with wearing maxi skirts. I can't remember exactly why but possibly chukas hagoyim or looking too casual. But I would need to ask my daughter!

There's no halacha against dressing casual.

amother

Dimgray

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:58 am

amother OP wrote:

Im not sure how many people I represent but I can tell you my side...
Im from monsey NY, litvish/light yeshivish BY upbringing. Always wore stockings (and hated it!)because I thought it was halacha.
Fast forward many years and now I find out that our Rav (yeshivish, posek)holds it's not halachicly required to cover the lower leg at all.
Well.
Ok then, I now will go out without stockings on. I love it. I still look put together and refined, but now I just wear my flats or sneakers without any stockings and it feels amazzzinng.
I still wear them to school events, shul, simchas etc but every day stockings is no longer BH.

Also, I feel like many other women also have only just learned that not everyone holds its halachicly required.

In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to see the amazing new book on tznius, Reclaiming Dignity, has a page on basic halachic requirements, and they carefully explain that there are some mainstream approaches that hold its not required to cover the lower leg.

So as more women learn this, you might find more women are stopping to cover.

Thats my explanation

amother

Calendula

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:00 pm

Perly1 wrote:

Only a minority of people consider R Falk to be their posek. Majority of people follow other halachic opinions.

amother

Dimgray

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:00 pm

Perly1 wrote:

Thats not at all how minhag hamakom works.
Its how your Jewish community as a whole dresses, and it only applies when the community is set enough that there is a clear standard.
For example, my Rav said that Monsey NY is too large and diverse for there to be a Minhag Hamakom

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:00 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

Yes but I have seen more and more people wearing just short socks, many of whom I wouldn't have expected to skip tights.

Even growing up in Miami, I knew people who wore mute pantyhose and ankle socks. Personally, I never covered my legs, and neither do my daughters. My sisters do, and so do most of their daughters.

Perly1

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:02 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

That's not how I learnt it. Otherwise we could all decide not to wear tights and that would be that. It's how modest non-Jews in the country where you live dress.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:05 pm

Perly1 wrote:

That's not how I learnt it. Otherwise we could all decide not to wear tights and that would be that. It's how modest non-Jews in the country where you live dress.

You are 100% incorrect.
Minhag Hamakom is based on what the halachic practicing Jewish people do in that community.
Wouldn't help if you all just decide not to wear a certain thing. If you go somewhere and the frum community who is makpid on halacha but doesn't wear tights, you can go along with that.
It is bizarre to think we base our tznius practices on the non-Jews. (even the "modest" ones lol)