S/O Xmas Trees and kids

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:19 am

Do you think it's okay to admire Xmas trees with your kids? Would you drive down a block just to look at the lights with your kids and exclaim how beautiful they are?

As an aside, if you remember your mother doing this when you were a child, how did it make you feel?

Busybee5

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:25 am

They're just beautiful lights, we can still enjoy all their lights from afar. I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe not the actual trees themselves, but all the decor at malls etc. Harmless.

amother

Gold

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:26 am

I wouldn’t specifically drive out to look at trees and lights but I don’t think it’s a big deal to say that you like/love the way they look. That’s two different things.

I also wouldn’t think negatively if I overheard someone (kid or adult) REPEATING that someone else said they love x-mas trees because I’d be missing context in two conversations.

amother

Snowdrop

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:33 am

If you realized what the lights and trees represent, which is that it’s xmas time and in the olden days it was kill the Jews time, you would shudder when you look at those lights.
Our grandparents couldn’t walk in the streets
Anytime near Xmas since if the Christian’s saw a Jew they would kill him. The pogroms happened leading up to and on Xmas.
Anyone who admires lights should be ashamed. Think about what they represent and you will see them totally differently. You will shudder from them.

amother

Gold

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:38 am

amother Snowdrop wrote:

Except that the lights and trees don’t represent the pogroms, or at least I don’t see it that way.

Busybee5

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:40 am

amother Gold wrote:

Except that the lights and trees don’t represent the pogroms, or at least I don’t see it that way.

This. It doesn't mean that to us, not nowadays. They're literally harmless. We're not trying to be like them.

Thisisnotmyreal

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:40 am

8 would never admire a tree or a house but quaint streets with fairy lights like this I can't help but marvel quietly.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:44 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

8 would never admire a tree or a house but quaint streets with fairy lights like this I can't help but marvel quietly.

This kind of lights we have in Israel in certain areas in the winter and has nothing to do with Xmas. If it was I'm sure the Rabbanim would have protested.

essie14

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 1:52 am

I grew up in a neighborhood with lots of Xmas trees and decorated houses. We used to drive to the completely non Jewish fancy neighborhoods where the decorations were incredible.
Just pretty stuff. It's not an issue to me.

amother

Ghostwhite

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 2:06 am

I said to DS13 "Every bulb, ornament and piece of tinsel you see should remind you that we are in guests (albeit largely well- tolerated) in a foreign place and we await bias Moshiach".

Iymnok

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 3:09 am

After learning the Navi castigating us for hanging gold and silver on trees,it became ugly. It's sourced directly from avoda Zara. It would be a conversation for us with historical context.

My grandma loved it and gave her children gifts that morning. It was a conversation in our house, growing up.

Kids understand the difference.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 3:55 am

Iymnok wrote:

Do you know where in Navi where it's stated about hanging gold and silver? Just curious to find out about more Smile

Iymnok

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 4:29 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Do you know where in Navi where it's stated about hanging gold and silver? Just curious to find out about more Smile

I’m pretty sure in Yirmiyahu. It’s been a while.

BaltoMom65

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 4:40 am

Actually pogroms were an Easter thing- not Xmas. As for the American Xmas culture- the motif, music- all created by Jews

SuperWify

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 4:47 am

My mother would always say, “eww gross look away kids” or something to that effect, same as when we passed by a church. So to the young me it felt really yucky.

Once my sister’s friend said, “these lights are so beautiful! I love seeing them.” We were so shocked.

But I grew up and realized they are beautiful. I don’t pots them out to my kids but if they say something I’ll say mmhmmm…

amother

Peach

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:12 am

I don't go seeking them out, or pointing them out deliberately to my kids, but if we were to walk past someone's house, I'm not going to go a different route to avoid it.
I have had conversations with my children from young about that, similar to how we have yom tov, it's the non-jews yom tov, and we light a menorah, they have a tree for their 'yom tov'. They aren't too bothered about it.

justforfun87

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 6:45 am

With every generation that passes we become more and more comfortable with it and I don't think that's a good thing. I grew up being told that Xmas was a time they would hunt down the jews so no, we do not go out of our way to look how beautiful it is. Do I love Xmas songs, yes! I really worked on myself this year to never turn on that channel.
.

I don't want to raise kids where Xmas is no big deal. I have difficulty expressing myself but Meyer Kahana explains it perfectly. The closer we become to that way of life the easier it is for the kids to say, what's the big deal? Befriending the non jews? What's the big deal? So no, I don't attend work Xmas parties or participate in Secret Santa gift exchanges.

This is coming from someone who is "modern" but I think we need to constantly remind our children that we are different.

GLUE

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:06 am

I remember learning from some were I don't remember the source.
The lights predate Christianity, there was a holiday that celebrated the winter solstice by lighting candles.
The Christians just absorbed it into their religion.
The whole lights started from Avoda Zara by Sun Worshipers.

I will try to find the source, in away it does make sense the Christians were very good at taking other peoples holidays and making it there own.

STMommy

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:14 am

To me the lights represent the external beauty that has always overemphasized since the days of Yafes. We are supposed to emphasize the inner light of every person. So yes I think making a big deal of Xmas lights sends the wrong message.