Americans in Israel

Reality

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:02 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes. The same as many Americans who learn Hebrew in Israel (especially in Ulpan)

Do Israelis really think you are a native born hebrew speaker? Because I would never think American english is Netanyahu 's first language. His English is amazing but anyone whose first language is American English can pick up on certain nuances that are a give away. It's the same for any other language.

amother

Maize

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:23 am

Should foreigners in israel also not pronounce ה and pronounce it has א instead, like a native?
תביא את א׳כדור?
should we correct an israeli every time they drop an H when they speak english? or add an H when a word begins with a vowel, like they are prone to do?

salt

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:32 am

Reality wrote:

Yes, I know what you mean with Bibi.
It's the D and the T.
Anglos have a soft T and D and Israelis have a hard T and D - if you know what I mean.
And Israeli who speak very good English - you can catch their T and D.
Bennett is the same as Bibi in his English accent.

etky

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:34 am

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

I moved to Israel as a very young teen. I'm married to an Israeli and speak Hebrew most of the day. I still have a strong American accent. My name has a ל in it and I still do not pronounce it properly.
This is not by choice. Some people have an easier time learning language and imitating accents and some people are more challenged.

Me too.
Moved when I was 14 (and had spent every summer here since age 4 + one entire school year when I was 9) and already fluent in Hebrew.
And yet, people can still detect a slight accent when I speak Hebrew and I think I can here traces of one in my kids' speech even though they are all native born and 100% bilingual from as soon as they could talk intelligibly.
I believe I pronounce the L and R like Israelis do (though I'm not 100% sure what you mean about the L). It's something beyond that. Hard to put a finger on it.

tryinghard

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:35 am

amother Maize wrote:

Actually this is regional, Yerushalayim to be specific.

juggling

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:40 am

amother OP wrote:

I learned the proper way to say it once I came here. My question is why not just learn the two letters ל & ר properly

Many Israeli's like Natenyahu speak English properly with no a accent. It's these two letters that male the accent.

I find it hard to believe that Israelis can't hear your accent at all.

Netanyahu does have an accent when he speaks English. Not a heavy one, but a discernible accent nonetheless.

There is much more to getting the accent correct, than just two sounds.

Language circuits in our brain are formed very early. Even with intensive speech therapy most people are not able to completely rewire their brains for new sounds after a certain age.

Someone who needs to speak with a native accent might sign up for speech therapy and make the best effort to get it right. And they still probably won't get it perfect. In any case, most olim are just happy to get their point across, accent or not.

Iymnok

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:44 am

I pick up accents relatively quickly. But I don’t have the language. So what good does it do to ask something in Hebrew if I can’t fully follow the answer?
It’s a made up accent anyway.

jflower

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:59 am

amother OP wrote:

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
1)Why do so many Americans in Israel use the L instead of ל and R instead of ר?
This cause people to have a strong accent.

2)Why do some children from American parents speak with an Israeli accent rather than learning proper English from their parents?

Americans sometimes comment that our children don't sound Israeli when speaking English. They speak proper English. The answer is that we taught them that English does not have a ר & ל these small changes makes all the difference.

When I hear kids of American parents speak English with an accent I always, wonder why. Say the word milk with an L and ל it changes from proper to accent.

Please explain what you mean about the difference between L and ל. Thanks

amother

Wallflower

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:59 am

One of my dc needed speech therapy for the letter R in English, born in the US. He pronounced it as a W. He was able to eventually master it with speech therapy, but my point here is that the speech therapist explained to me that it is an extremely complicated sound to produce.

We all pick it up instinctively as we learn to speak, but for those who don't, the tongue has to be in a specific, unnatural position and you have to breathe a specific way coordinated with the tongue placement. It's almost impossible to produce the sound by logically trying to follow the steps.

I assume the Hebrew reish, and other sounds, are similarly difficult.

essie14

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:02 am

I made aliyah in my 30s. I'm fairly fluent by 10+ years later, but no one would ever think I was born here LOL

I mean, I can put on the accent OK, but it ain't perfect.

My stepkids were between 2-8 when they came.
My oldest speaks Hebrew so perfectly that no one in his pluga in the army believed that he wasn't born here.
The others speak fluently but just don't sound like sabras. You can tell theyre all olim.

My DD was born here and I think she has a pretty good accent. She's definitely 100% fluent but since English is her 1st language she may always have an American accent.

My cousin made aliyah over 20 years ago when he was 18, served in the army and reserves and is married to a total Israeli. He gets interviewed on Israeli TV all the time because of his job and he still has a very American accent. No one cares.

amother

Rainbow

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:04 am

I've been living here 20 years and alhough chutznikim think I'm Israeli when I speak Hebrew (I have a very good accent) Israelis can still pick up on it. My kids speak English with an Israeli accent. Mostly because living on a yishuv where they only ever hear Hebrew outside the home, they don't hear enough of it.

If we're making observations, I'll observe that I have almost never heard someone who sounds really native in two languages. Americans who pride themselves on their children's perfect English, the kids sound American in Hebrew as well. I noticed this recently when I visited a friend in Yerushalayim in a more American neighborhood. She was showing how her kids speak perfect American English but their Hebrew was nowhere near the level of my kids Hebrew.

When you say your accent is perfect, to you it may sound like that. Israelis probably don't think that way.

It's to do with how you use your mouth. That's why French people sound different from Americans, British from French etc. It's formed early on and very, very few people sound totally native in more than one language.

amother

Papayawhip

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:30 am

I've been here since I was 18, well over 20 years now. I can not for the life of me say ר. I got the ל and the vowel sounds and the ד and the ט/ת. But I just cannot do the ר. I even tried an exercise from a speech therapist for months. Still can't do it. My friends tried to teach me, my kids tried to teach me. Just can't. OP, if you can teach me to say the ר, I will gladly use it!

amother

Stoneblue

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:34 am

jflower wrote:

Please explain what you mean about the difference between L and ל. Thanks

Can op or someone else answer jflower’s question please.
Is there really a strong difference in the ל when an American says להתראות ?
It’s easy to hear the difference between the ר in להתראות as an American, French, Russian and Israeli pronounce it. I think I even hear a difference in the way Ethiopians and Yemenites pronounce it.
I don’t hear the difference in the ל . Does everyone? Can you describe it?

Rappel

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:38 am

#2 - it takes immersive training to fix an accent. My kids are growing up in Israeli society, and their English is pronounced with Hebrew phonemes. I'm sure if I put them in an American context for a few months, that would straighten out. But until then, it's too pervasive to effect the change artificially

amother

NeonPurple

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:41 am

jflower wrote:

Please explain what you mean about the difference between L and ל. Thanks

It's a minor difference.

For the American L, you touch your tongue to your teeth and the very front of the roof of the mouth.

For the Israeli sound, you touch the tip of your tongue to the middle of the roof of your mouth.

Try it.

jflower

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:50 am

amother NeonPurple wrote:

Thanks for explaining. I never knew there was a difference.

amother

Stoneblue

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 8:54 am

amother NeonPurple wrote:

Thank you!