Was this your child?

Ema of 5

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 9:50 am

amother Currant wrote:

You’re saying a lot of different things here.
Of course please and thank you should be said all the time.
In Brooklyn though, a young child should not be taught to greet every stranger they pass on the street. And that does NOT show a lack of middos. Adults are a different category. If you want to greet every stranger on the street (would be super weird in Brooklyn) go ahead, but that doesn’t make it the norm for a child here.

Who said anything about bad middos?
Not being the norm in Brooklyn doesn’t make it socially off for everywhere outside of Brooklyn.

amother

Starflower

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 9:51 am

Love it! I say good morning to everyone I interact with on my way to work, from the bus driver, security guard, students, other professors, etc and taught my children to do the same.

amother

Snowdrop

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 10:35 am

I think the reason it's not the norm in Brooklyn to greet everyone you meet is that there are so many people on the street you'd be saying goodshabbosgoodshabbosgoodshabbos and possible even miss a person walking past that same second.

When I'm away for Shabbos I usually do greet strangers if that is the norm for that town.

amother

Currant

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 10:37 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

Who said anything about bad middos?
Not being the norm in Brooklyn doesn’t make it socially off for everywhere outside of Brooklyn.

Right but my comments on this thread was about the topic of this thread, not about outside of Brooklyn.

yiddishmom

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 10:52 am

I am utterly confused how someone can say it is socially off. It's a basic Jewish concept.

Pirkei avos 4:15
רַבִּי מַתְיָא בֶן חָרָשׁ אוֹמֵר, הֱוֵי מַקְדִּים בִּשְׁלוֹם כָּל אָדָם.
Upon meeting people, be the first to extend greetings.

If you tell me that in big cities it became acceptable not to greet each other because you pass hundreds of people a min, okay.

But to come and say that someone who makes sure to greet another person with a smile is socially off, 😕😕

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 11:12 am

Quote:

Eta: the good mornings are usually if it’s quiet outside. If it’s busy and I’m bumping into 30 people, I won’t say Gm to them all. But if one or two people, we usually exchange greetings

And this exactly explains the difference between in-town vs OOT.
I grew up in BP and now live OOT.
If one were to walk down 14th Ave on a spring shabbos afternoon and greet every person, it would take an hour to walk 2 blocks. Walking 1 hour OOT, I dont see as many ppl as on one block in BP. So of course when I see a frum face, I'm so happy and greet them

And that where social norms come from.

When I go somewhere on vacation and see a frum face, of course I'll greet and shmooze, but If I would have seen the same person on 13th Ave, I wouldn't have.

amother

Trillium

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 11:16 am

The point is that teenagers usually want to fit in, so if this young man is doing something that's not done in his community (whether you think it's right or wrong) then he either doesn't understand social norms. Or just doesn't care.

amother

Puce

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 12:29 pm

amother Snowflake wrote:

I don't think that in the world out of NY, a person walking down the street will comment to every random person he passes with a "good morning". Are you saying two people never pass each other by without commenting on the time of day? Maybe if you live in Small Town America, but that's not where majority of people live.
I say good day/night etc. to people I have some sort of dealing with, like the cashier or if someone asks for help with directions or anything like that.

This is exactly what happens. It's not a Jewish thing though, it's general NY/NJ "city" culture from what I've seen.

I have lived in several large US cities that are considered "OOT" Jewish communities. Random strangers say hello/good morning when they pass. It's basic etiquette, like it would be considered rude to pass another human without a smile+greeting.
It's just a cultural difference, not worth getting worked up over. It doesn't mean people in NY aren't nice.

zaq

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 12:29 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

Or his parents are from OOT and taught him to greet people.
Or he's a really nice kid and saw someone who looked as if she could use a nice greeting to cheer up her day.
Or he just learned about sever panim yafot and is trying to implement it.
Or he heard about "random acts of kindness" and is trying to implement that.
Or he heard his aunt or some other visitor from Babaganoosh City, WI complaining that people in Brooklyn are incredibly unfriendly and off-putting and he's trying to correct that impression.

If this young man knows that in his community people don't greet anyone whom they don't know personally, feels that's wrong, and is on a one-bocher mission to change that--more power to him!

amother

Celeste

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 12:38 pm

What a mentch OP met, hope his mom is reading this.
We taught our kids to acknowledge and greet people, especially our neighbors. So even if my sons meet a lady neighbor, or daughters meet a male neighbor - give a smile, acknowledge, say good morning, good shabbos, whatever. Be polite!
And yes, I have lost count of the times my neighbors have fed back saying what a pleasant greeting they got from one of our kids.

mrsnistar

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 2:26 pm

amother NeonYellow wrote:

Just commenting on this - it doesn't really have so much to do with the mothers. It's usually part of the child's middos and personality. I have some kids who are more likely to notice, help, and greet others, and some who are less likely.

Nope, nope. Disagree. It's also the mothers! Of course it's a personality thing, but it also is very much the chinuch of the parents!!!
There's a very big difference between kids who just stare blankly when adults say something to them and the kids who know how to interact appropriately. And it's largely taught. When mommy is in the grocery with children and is checking out at the register, if she says to the toddler, "Say thank you. Bye-bye.", then her kid will be better equipped. When she meets her friend at a simcha and says, "Say hello to mommy's friend", even if the kid doesn't know how to day hello, the child is learn how to appropriately interact with friendly, supportive adults.
As opposed to the example I always give of the kid in shul on Simchas Torah who just stares blankly and awkwardly when you pass them a lolly and day, "Here you go, cutie."

amother

Snowflake

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 3:01 pm

mrsnistar wrote:

how does that prove anything? These can very well be the same kid whose mother says "say bye bye" at the grocery. I agree with the poster you replied to.
You totally missed the point, which is that a mother could teach and preach all she wants but kids do their own thing.

BrisketBoss

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 3:03 pm

zaq wrote:

This post (OP) reminded me of my husband's family--OOT homeschooled. I could see them doing this. Definitely more interested in being polite than in fitting in. Smile

BrisketBoss

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 3:05 pm

amother Snowflake wrote:

I would agree in that kids learn much more from what you do than from what you tell them to do. In fact, telling them to do it is likely to have the opposite effect. Yet parents see this as their responsibility.

amother

Eggshell

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 5:05 pm

amother Snowflake wrote:

I was specifically referring to the Good Morning, not the Good Shabbos. As I mentioned in previous post, I also say Good Shabbos to every frum person and I am intown.
But as someone else mentioned, yes saying "Good morning" to someone you don't know even if they're frum, on a regular weekday is socially off here. and a bit strange.
Do you say "good morning" on a weekday to people you don't know?

OOT, if I'm walking and make eye contact then very often yes. Frum for sure, but even others...

mrsnistar

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 6:40 pm

amother Snowflake wrote:

No, no, you missed my point. Of course, each child does their own thing, but a whole lot depends on nurture. It's not only nature. As I told someone last night when we talked about something similar, "Most of the kids will take with them most of their parents' values most of the time."
Obviously, it's not always possible to help a child develop good social skills. But trying our hardest helps a whole lot.
And I didn't just mean a mother telling her child to say bye-bye and thank you, etc. Obviously, it has to come with modeling good social interaction and effective and respectful communication!

amother

Lightyellow

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 6:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

A boy said a real genuine good morning to me this morning. It was 715 am and he was walking to the bus stop on ave L nostrand Ave. Abt 13 yo. Wearing a black hat and loafers.

You should feel proud you raised him well

I’m proud to say that other than the age, this could have easily been my son.

watergirl

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 6:52 am

BatyaEsther wrote:

I love how we call everything socially off.

You know, OOT we smile and say good morning or good Shabbos to everyone we pass on the street. It’s actually considered rude not to.

SERIOUSLY!!

My daughter's friend does a thing. He says good shabbos to everyone and when someone doesn't say good shabbos back or acknowledge his greeting with even a smile or the head-nod thing we all know, he says really loudly to her "that's funny, he looked Jewish to me!" IE that they didn't return the greeting because they did not understand it.

Where we live, everyone says good shabbos other than the transplants from other places who don't do this there. It's seen as very socially off to ignore a greeting or not to offer one.