S/O midwinter - needing permission from school

amother

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:04 pm

I didn’t grow up frum and am wondering - why do frum schools get to dictate whether a parent can take a child out for a family trip (like when he other children in the family have midwinter break)?

Am I alone in thinking it’s overreach?

amother

Orange

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

What do you mean dictate?
I think it's a normal policy to let the school know if the child would be absent for an extended period of time.

amother

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:13 pm

amother Orange wrote:

What do you mean dictate?
I think it's a normal policy to let the school know if the child would be absent for an extended period of time.

By dictate I mean make the rules and allow/disallow things.

Of course I think it makes sense to let the school know if your child will be out for an extended amount of time, or even home for 1 day if they’re sick. My question is more about - why do schools get to decide whether a student is or is not allowed to take off time to go on a family trip for a few days.

amother

Ghostwhite

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:14 pm

You can always take a child out of school. The question is is the absence excused in terms of work and attendance record.

Meaning if it falls under the school's justification for reasons to miss, not that they're just missing school, which would cause them to fall behind or think that they should just be exempt from all the classwork their classmates had to do.

Most of the time students are still required to make up the work including tests and quizzes, but if it's a partially excused or fully excused absence often teachers will make accommodations.

amother

Caramel

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:33 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Don’t all schools have policies about unexcused absences? I know my local public schools do, this isn’t just a frum policy.

There’s no way it’s a punitive as frum schools’ policies-or at least the one I’m dealing with. DS is losing 2 points off his report card grade in every single subject that he misses (so pretty much all of them. He’s missing one day). He hasn’t been absent at all otherwise but that’s their policy for unexcused absences (and they don’t really excuse easily).

amother

Orange

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:35 pm

amother Caramel wrote:

What does unexcused mean?
By my kids school, unexcused is if the parents didn't call to let the school know about the absence, or if the student missed a test because of absence & did not make up the test by the designated time. I think it's automatic detention but no points off the subject.

amother

Caramel

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:38 pm

amother Orange wrote:

Unexcused is basically anything other than sick with a fever. In this case, our children’s breaks don’t overlap and we asked if we can take this child out of school one day to do something with his siblings (who are off then but not when he is). We definitely called in advance and he’s not missing any tests etc.

amother

Orange

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:40 pm

amother Caramel wrote:

So a family simcha is unexcused?
A vacation I understand, especially for yeshiva bachurim. But a family simcha?

mha3484

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:44 pm

My kids handbook says a family simcha within reason is fine but you cant be excessive. It is disruptive to your son and rest of the class. We are supposed to call the menahel first and discuss it. When my grandmother got sick, in the period before she was too sick, I took my boys out on some legal days to see her and the school was fine with it because we discussed it.

amother

Catmint

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:00 pm

I agree. Also didn’t grow up frum so we will never have a family simcha , so in other words our kids can never miss a day of school ? If a family is being excessive the school should take action but I think family time is very important. One day a year for family time I think is healthy …. Especially when our boys never have a weekday off except for four weeks in the summer and chol hamoed. I’m talking about a five year old here not a teenager

amother

Peachpuff

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:02 pm

I will admit that I have lied to my kids school and said they were sick, just so we could take a break as a family and have a vacation. Even got a doctor's note. It's my family and I will try to respect the school rules but sometimes, we need a break. With different schedules and various health issues, if we get a miracle and have a long weekend to go away-we will. My kids, on the other hand, hate missing school so it's rare that they indulge me.

amother

Lightyellow

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Lol, nope. I’m assuming you don’t live in Lakewood
My sons school absolutely doesn’t allow. When we did take an extended midwinter vacation to Florida (they missed Monday, they were only off Fri-Sun) we had serious serious issues with the school. The principal called multiple times, I will not repeat the conversations that took place. I was very scared of being kicked out, we were pretty close to it (before that we had a perfect relationship with the school)
I was also scared that my next kids wouldn’t be accepted even though I sent a few boys there already
Suffice is to say we gave a big donation that we couldn’t afford at that years dinner 🤦‍♀️
I do not believe this of all the schools, but yea, there went my innocence

amother

Orange

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

I don't think people here are talking about 1 day a year, I don't think schools make such issue with that.
And kids have summer vacation, bein Hazmanim.... it's not as if they never have off.

amother

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:18 pm

Wow that really sounds like overreach. Don’t have kids in school yet but now I’m getting worried. I am one of my parents’ two children, my sibling doesn’t plan on having kids (at least as of now), and my folks live across the country. I’ve heard some schools make rules about not going to specific states like Florida, California, etc. There’s no way I would agree to never take my kids to visit my parents because the school decided that they don’t allow that, or they they don’t allow a day off occasionally (I’m talking 1-3 times a year if at all). I wonder if the rules were made on the assumption that for most students, grandparents and extended family members are nearby enough that no one would have to take longer than a couple hours to get to or from where they live. To get to my parents it’s an entire day’s worth of travel, and then an entire day’s worth of travel back.

I understand the schools having rules like don’t miss more than x days per semester, or guidelines for making up missed work, but beyond that seems a little ridiculous.

amother

Catmint

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:19 pm

amother Orange wrote:

I don't think people here are talking about 1 day a year, I don't think schools make such issue with that.
And kids have summer vacation, bein Hazmanim.... it's not as if they never have off.

My sons Menahel calls if he misses a day adjacent to a “break”- the breaks are usually Friday and Sunday. We have gotten letters home telling us it’s forbidden.
We have no family to travel to for Shabbos so we aren’t going away those three days.
My son has 4 weeks off in the summer and he has off chol hamoed. For midwinter Hanukkah etc he has off Friday and Sunday. He has off half a day on a fast. There’s very little opportunity for family time.

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:20 pm

amother Orange wrote:

I don't think people here are talking about 1 day a year, I don't think schools make such issue with that.
And kids have summer vacation, bein Hazmanim.... it's not as if they never have off.

They are talking about 1 day but it’s a day that if they didn’t make a big deal about they would have significantly less students since its either connected to midwinter or they don’t have midwinter but it’s when the local girls have off and everyone wants their boys home ‘just one day.’ They won’t usually make a big deal of a random day off at other times during the year.

amother

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:23 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

So why don’t they just give an extra day on either end of midwinter? That means teachers also can’t go see family that live far away. Is the principal/admin in school those days also or do they have permission from the board (or whoever) to travel and miss a day?

Or how about the schools coordinate so that the girls’ and boys’ schools are off at the same time?