Pls help me get the to the bottom of my daughter's issues

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:48 pm

My daughter is very difficult to deal with. I think she needs help, I'm just not sure how to pinpoint what is wrong.

She is 7 years old and is very immature.

On the one hand she always wants to the right thing and can be very pleasant at times. In school she behaves perfectly, is a model student, though does struggle academically. She's a little bit naive so can sometimes get taken advantage of by others, but she definitely has friends. She would never be mean to her friends or anything, she's too nice for that. However, she's the type to think she's never out in a game and that kind of thing, so she will often come home crying when playing outside.

At home she's constantly having meltdowns. Especially when overtired, but also at regular times. It's impossible to enforce any boundaries with her or make any ultimatums because she just doesn't get it. I think this is the main issue. Any parenting tips just won't work for her because she honestly doesn't get it. She's not doing it to get anyone angry, but has to get her way, it's impossible to reason with her. Enforcing boundaries won't teach her a lesson, she can't learn from it.

A few recent examples:

There was a raffle in a neighborhood tehillim group after collecting tokens for a few weeks. She wasn't happy with her prize and came home in tears. That part I think is age-appropriate.

But, then she sat sulking for ages and refused to come in the other room where we had guests. And said the prize is only possible to use with a pump (to blow up the balloons) and we need to buy it today. I said I can ask tatty to buy one on his way home from work, but she was adamant that no, we need to go buy it NOW. It was impossible to console her.

I was anyway happy to go out a short while later to walk my guest to the bus stop so I said we'll go shopping. (Usually I would have waited and not gone out right then, I definitely don't indulge her every time.) I didn't have cash on me so I asked my son if I can take from him and pay him back later. She got all upset that I should take from her and not him. Fine, I took from her also.

We started walking and then realized we have left her wallet at home. She said we need to go back to fetch it and started having another meltdown. I said we can't go back but my son very kindly offered to run home and get it.

Forgot to mention: When guest said it was time to leave, she got upset about that also, she doesn't want them to leave yet. (It was a relative.)

I think the rest of the trip passed eventfully, but you get the gist.

Another example was at the Shabbos meal. My toddler put a few croutons in her soup she she wanted a new bowl of soup, it wasn't enough to just remove the croutons. One of my other kids wanted to finish her bowl so I told her to give it to them and then I'll get her a new bowl. She refused to give it and said, no, just give me a new bowl.

We did try to set a boundary and said I'm not going to get her more until she lets him have it. She ended up having a whole meltdown and wouldn't give in. You just can't reason with her. I ended up just passing her bowl to my other son and she was very upset aftewards saying 'Why did you give it to him, I was going to give it anyway!!'

Then that night she even called me to her room when she was in bed and told me that she wants me to ask her mechillah since I was very mean to her. She honestly perceives it as us being mean if we don't do what she wants. There's no way at all to reason with her. But she's not one of these kids whose mean and has bad middos, she always nice to everyone one. She just has a huge immaturity in this area.

Every morning comes with meltdowns, every supper and bedtime too. Every Shabbos meal ends up with a meltdown about something or other. Like a meltdown in the morning can be using the wrong brush to do her hair. In the shabbos meal it can be about who she's sitting next to. After a bath it can be about which pyjamas. I brought her one pair and she didn't want those. I brought another and then she decides to go back to the first one.#]

The problem is that reading this over, I can see you all shaking your heads, and tsk tsking this new generation permissive mother. Of couse your daughter behaves like this if you constantly give in to her.

But, that's the entire problem and why I don't know where to turn to help. Becuase there's just no point enforcing boundaries with her. She doesn't understand them and it doesn't teach her anything honestly. It's like she has a complete blockage to any reasoning, she's very immature in this area and just doen't understand it. She honestly thinks she's always right and just feels we're not being nice to her if we try to make a boundary, she doesn't get it.

She often often acts very contrary, not sure if she wants this or that and unable to decide.

Another piece, which might be totally unrelated but definitely plays a part in her meltdowns, is that she's always complaining about stomachaches. It plays a part in her meltdowns because whenever it's time to do something like have supper, have a bath she can start complaining about her stomachache and then you can't reason with her to do anything. I've taken her to doctors, had bloodtest, scan etc and they couldn't find anything wrong.

Sorry for such a long post. Just hoping to get some insight from some wise Imas here. Any ideas how we can help her??

amother

Cyan

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:53 pm

I’d have her evaluated sounds like it can be asd or adhd both have some of the issues mentioned.

amother

Snapdragon

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:55 pm

To me it seems like she is dysregulated. I gave a kid (or two) like this

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:56 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

I’d have her evaluated sounds like it can be asd or adhd both have some of the issues mentioned.

I did mention to my husband a couple of days ago that I'm worried maybe she has ASD.

I don't know how she would get evaluated though since she'll just act all sweet and cute at the appointment. She wouldn't show any of these behaviors to a complete stranger.

She also doesn't have any problem with eye contact which I know is a biggie for ASD.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:56 pm

It sounds like a major underlying issue is her rigidity/ lack of flexible thinking. I would strongly recommend reading the explosive child, by Ross green, and implementing his collaborative problem solving techniques as often as possible throughout the day.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:56 pm

amother Snapdragon wrote:

To me it seems like she is dysregulated. I gave a kid (or two) like this

How do you help a kid who is dysregulated?

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:00 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Thank you, I will order it.

Another example I thought of is that she has a private lesson she goes to a couple of times a week (which she loves going to). One time her teacher asked if I can switch with the later appointment and I said yes. She was REALLY upset about this because then it meant missing her tehillim group. It was impossible to reason with her about it, she was so upset. I ended up calling her teacher and telling her to cut the lesson short so she can leave early.

I remember thinking at the time, that to all her teachers she presents as a very easygoing and pleasant child. This person probably thought it was so simple just to switch the times, she wouldn't have dreamt what an upheaval it caused.

amother

Olive

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:01 pm

Can I mention something totally out there? Would you try treating her for pinworms? It can make kids so irrational to the point of craziness and cause stomach aches. Had it with my Ds once and until a friend told me to try this, I never ever would've connected the dots. No I never saw anything, but I gave the medication because Dr said it can't hurt and within a week his stomachache disappeared after months if not years of complaining and his irritability went down considerably

amother

Whitesmoke

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:03 pm

Cognitive Rigidity, being stuck in victim mode, inability to take responsibility are all signs of an over-aroused nervous system stuck in fight flight.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:03 pm

To me it sounds like she may be missing positive attention so she is begging for it in different ways. Have you ever tried to give her lots of positive attention hugs and kisses, mommy and me time, daily before she has a chance to ask for it in negative ways? I recently got this advice for one of my very difficult children and I've seen positive change BH.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:03 pm

amother Olive wrote:

Interesting. It's not so totally out there because I have thought this in the past also. Just impossible to get her to take any medication so wouldn't usually give it unless I know she has pinworms. But, maybe is worth a try.

I still think there is a bigger issue underlying it though.

oneofakind

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:04 pm

Rigidity can be a sign of ASD or of anxiety. High functioning ADD is similar to ASD in girls. Really a good neuropsych would get to the bottom of this and her learning issues.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:04 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

Cognitive Rigidity, being stuck in victim mode, inability to take responsibility are all signs of an over-aroused nervous system stuck in fight flight.

How do you help a child who has this issue?

amother

Maple

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:05 pm

My eight year old son is EXACTLY like this. He is also very well behaved in school though his teachers often say he seems confused or distracted. He also complains about stomach hurting all the time. I think it’s anxiety. He also has a really hard time with boundaries and rules - like you said , he just doesn’t seem to GET it. Everything is so unfair and everyone is so mean and everything is a meltdown.
He is currently starting with a new therapist and getting a full evaluation. I hope it helps!

amother

Coffee

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:05 pm

Ok, you literally described my 7 year old, lol.
My daughter does have a diagnosis of pandas, so maybe that plays into the rigidities as well.
We've used homeopathy which made a big difference in taking the edge off of it. We don't have more than one meltdown a week anymore which is huge. (coming from 2 hour long meltdowns every day).

I know exactly what you mean when you say that reasoning, talking, enforcing simply doesn't make a difference.
I have used rewards for breaking a rigidity and that helped somewhat, but only when she was in the perfect mood.

My daughter also complains of stomach pains a lot... don't know what to do for that.

amother

Papaya

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:05 pm

I would do an OT eval for regulation. I would mention the stomach aches to the doctor, because you want to rule out a physical cause, but it sounds more to me liek she has anxiety. I have a kid with anxiety and adhd, and this is pretty much who this kid is/was.

Certain really good OTs can target the anxiety some along with emotional regulation. For example, she can be taught to learn her body signals and what they tell her, and adapt accordingly. You can also either do a play therapy eval or doo some sessions with a child behaviorist/ psychologist to get some guidance. Because you're right- while this is all happening, the "correct" parenting rules don't help, and often increase the problems.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:06 pm

oneofakind wrote:

Rigidity can be a sign of ASD or of anxiety. High functioning ADD is similar to ASD in girls. Really a good neuropsych would get to the bottom of this and her learning issues.

She likely does have anxieties. Though I can't say for sure she doesn't have another issue also.

How does a neuropsych get to the bottom of it when the child doesn't present these problems to them at the appointment? Is it all based on the parent's say-so?

amother

Blush

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:06 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

Cognitive Rigidity, being stuck in victim mode, inability to take responsibility are all signs of an over-aroused nervous system stuck in fight flight.

Not op but you sound smart lol. How would you go about addressing such a concern?

amother

Hawthorn

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

How do you help a kid who is dysregulated?

OT can help. Also finding the underlying cause. It really does sound a lot like ASD or ADHD.

It’s definitely not your parenting causing it.

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:08 pm

Sounds like it definitely could be anxiety