If you didn’t go to seminary in Israel

zaq

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:37 am

Reality wrote:

I'm sorry, that is ridiculous.

For most girls, being in seminary in Israel means their parents have enough money to send them. They are not independent at all if they have mommy and daddy's credit card.

There are very few girls who go to seminary in Israel that are spending 100% their own money.

Regarding my own background and feelings, I have written many times that I grew up poor. There was no money for seminary in Israel. I went to local seminary, which I paid for myself and got a job and went to school.

Only someone living in a rich little bubble would ever think that going off to another country on your parents dime shows independence. The rest of us know being responsible for your own bills and showing up to work on time etc is the real test of adulthood.

Oddly enough, from my very large grade, the majority who went to seminary in Israel, I am one of a handful that actually made aliyah. Maybe it's because I actually know how to be happy with less and grew up less attached to "stuff". Maybe it's because I grew up in a home where we loved Israel and never disparaged the modern day reality of what we have and thank Hashem for it.

Every word

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:52 am

amother Lightpink wrote:

I went to sem in ey, loved every minute of it. I'm living in ey now and let's just say I have yet to learn to love the land

What a sad comment.

I didnt think the goal of Seminary in EY was to encourage Aliyah, in fact, I was given the impression that parents didnt want seminaries pushing the Aliyah direction.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:56 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I don’t think so.
It takes a certain personality to go to sem in EY.
It shows you’re independent, can think on your own, can make good financial choices, etc. Some girls who need to stay home and be with mommy and daddy and it’s hard to cut the cord-they’re not looking to marry an independent type and might need to mature more before getting married. I totally get it. It’s completely a type of personality. Like would you want to marry a boy who didn’t dorm in yeshiva and stayed home and slept at home and his parents made his lunch and did his laundry etc ? Probably not. That would be considered weird in many circles. Modern Orthodox very often go away to college. Going away is what happens after high school in every community all over the world.

A guy living at home until marriage dies not mean his parents are doing everything for him.
AND what a silly reason not to go out with soneone, not leaving home.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:57 am

It would be interesting if someone with resources would do a survey of how many girls go to Israel for Seminary - end up living there. And from which schools. And from which backgrounds and areas.

The schools wouldnt want that as it would turn parents off. I know there are some seminaries who dont hide their Zionistic leanings, and are sought after by girls who want to make Aliyah eventually, but most stay far away from that agenda.

Last edited by B'Syata D'Shmya on Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:59 am

Reality wrote:

You grew up rich in the areas that count. You are my hero.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:03 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Depends on the seminary.

True, so I edited to include that. Although I do stand by the word "was" and know that even if the staff extol the virtues of living in Israel (notice I didnt write "make Aliyah"), the seminaries dont formally include that as a goal of their educational direction. And I do stand by the words "parents dont want"...

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:15 am

amother Snow wrote:

I went to seminary many years ago and have been living in Israel upwards of two decades. Honestly, I'm not sure how much of it is to do with the fact I went to seminary, things just worked out that way. What I will say is that I have hosted many, many seminary girls over the years and the overwhelming majority have no desire to live here long term. Some of them enjoy sem but are more than happy to go back home at the end of the year and some of them are very critical of the country as a whole and admit that they are really not enjoying themselves. A few would be willing to live here for a year or two after marriage but I have not met any who have expressed an intense, burning desire to stay. This all has been very surprising to me, but for the most part they seem to come so that they can check off one more experience off their lists.

Question: what are they critical of? Just curious Smile

amother

Cognac

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:33 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

I did not have a good year in sem. Nothing major happened...but there were a lot of long draggy afternoons, boring/patronizing classes, stress about shabbos plans, etc. Did not have a connection to the seminary teachers who seemed to be living in a bubble and were very detached from the reality of current day American frum people (it was like they were stuck in the past from the 1980s/90s or whenever they had picked up and moved to EY and thought everything in America was just the same).
When I left at the end of the year, I had no desire to go back. It took me close to 10 years to go back for a summer vacation. I went on some tours where I actually understood the information (geared to Americans and spoken in English) and experienced being there without the stress and boredom of my seminary year. And I loved it, and felt very inspired, and have felt a connection ever since. I think most people whitewash their memories of seminary and look back with rose colored memories. I remember a lot of girls feeling the same way, they just didn't admit it after going home at the end of the year, and after some time managed to convince themselves it was the most amazing year ever. Or they get married shortly after, and when they look back it's from the point of view of the last time they were truly carefree and unencumbered and that's why they look back so nostalgically on their seminary year. Obviously, this isn't the case for everyone. But it is true for more girls than you'd think.

Reading this, and esp your first paragraph, I assumed you were around my age because I relate so much to what you wrote. But then you have that comment about being stuck in the 80s or 90s. I was there in the 90s! Lol. So I guess the takeaway is that things haven't changed....

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:37 am

amother Cognac wrote:

Sorry for the question but in the sem classes and tours are conducted in Hebrew or English?

amother

Cognac

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 11:49 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Sorry for the question but in the sem classes and tours are conducted in Hebrew or English?

As I recall, they were in English.

I'm going to edit that I think many of the teachers, maybe even all, actually did speak in Hebrew. It's possible the Americans used more English but we definitely had teachers who did not speak English at all. But I think the tour guides when we went on tiulim were in English.

amother

Dimgray

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 12:00 pm

amother Cognac wrote:

I was there mid/late 90s. I guess I should have specified 1980s and early 90s. Because I feel that there were so many societal changes in the frum world starting then, that even someone who made aliyah in 1992 was already starting to be a bit out of the loop if they had stayed in their bubble. I probably am close to your age lol.

amother

Ginger

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 12:51 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

I can’t talk because I grew up in e”y. I can tell you growing up I felt no connection at all. It was all taken for granted. I actually resented my parents for making that choice of raising 5 kids in a 60 sqm apartment just for the sake of living there. My father worked like a dog and still couldn’t afford paying for a bus ride. So now I’m a little complexed about it. I live in America and have a hard time differentiating between missing the land or missing the culture and people. I’m curious which one of it is what people connect to. When you say love for e”y do you mean spiritually or culturally cuz those are two very different things.

this!!

I think of this so often.. cultural modern day israel is not the same thing as eretz yisrael that we are connected to.
dont get me wrong, I love the culture too - but we cant confuse loving hebrew, and 'sabra' and falafel for loving eretz yisroel as a land that was gifted to us by Hashem.

this can also explain why some american sem girls have a hard time with some of the roughness in israeli culture - it has nothing to do with loving eretz yisrael.

amother

Phlox

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:13 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

My experience from the early 90s at a very prestigious seminary was exactly this.

amother

Snow

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:18 pm

amother Phlox wrote:

My experience from the early 90s at a very prestigious seminary was exactly this.

I was also in seminary in the early nineties. Probably not the most prestigious, but one of the "in" ones at the time. I enjoyed it for the most part and don't remember being bored or having huge empty chunks of free time. Some of the lessons/teachers were better than others but I did my work and didn't take it too seriously. Shabbos plans were a bit of a stress, but I really got to see the length and breadth of the country that way. I also had family to fall back on.