What does mesorah mean to you?

redapple

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 12:38 pm

Does anyone feel mesorah is a way for parents to maintain control of their children's lives?

If you are doing something different post marriage and it may seem extreme to family members but serves your life better, makes you happy, and happier being jewish and then being told "your not following mesorah" or you are hurting ur parents by doing that and that's not kibbud av etc etc..
(this is not talking about things that are against halacha, just doing things that don't align with their views of yiddishkeit)
Do children have to sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of mesorah and kibbud av veim?

Do children have to live their lives un-authentically for the sake of kibbud av and following mesorah?

At what point should parents work on themselves to see their child is happy and that's all that should matter? Not the image the child portrays to their "circles" and how it reflects "badly" on them.

Anyone else relate to this?

Last edited by redapple on Wed, Mar 06 2024, 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Blonde

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 12:58 pm

I dont think that a child can ever have the attitude of expecting their parent to conform to them. thats not how it works.

if a child would pick a different path in life to serving hashem I think they would have to be very careful. I would imagine that they should be respectful in front of their parents so as not to cause pain but are not required to actually live their life exactly the way the parent demands, on their own.

an example is - is a child required to wear a jacket that a mother insists on them wearing once they are no longer in the eyesight of their mother? and the mother will never know whether they did or not?

**also important to note that this is very different for married women bec they become under their husbands leadership once married.
you are not exempt from kibbud av veim but you are first obligated toward your husband.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 1:00 pm

amother Green wrote:

I don't really see the value to mesorah, or at least the way people use the term.
I think kids should be able to change their family's "Mesorah" without any backlash.

our entire way of life is through mesorah!! if we didnt value the idea of passing down 'oral torah' and customs from father to son then where would we be????

I understand that you may be thinking of silly or baseless customs.. but who are you to even decide whats silly or baseless?? and tradition is LITERALLY the whole foundation of our religion

redapple

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 1:17 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I am going to be very controversial here but isn't everyone required to work on their middos? including parents? they don't have to conform, but at least understand, and put their child's happiness above their own pre-conceived notions on how their child should serve hashem. I wish parents and children would have honest conversations with each other. (I know I know I'm expecting to much of parents by thinking this)

I think choosing a different path then being respectful in front of parents is tricky. If a child wants to see their parents often and has to alter things they do in their lives in order to visit then it gets harder to go and kids will just come less often.

redapple

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 1:33 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

How do we know our parents remember everything exactly like their parents did? Memories r not so trustworthy...
For some children following mesorah is easier, for some it feels harder

Not knocking the concept of mesorah more the concept of it "keeping children in line" by making them feel guilt and shame for serving hashem halachically, and in a way that the child feels happy with being Jewish. Personally I want my child to be a happy being jew, from my perspective I think that will serve them better in the long run.

amother

Green

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 1:37 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I don't know. I grew up and never heard the word Mesorah once in my house. And my parents are frum and we kids are all frum. Maybe the things I learned from them are my mesorah. I have no idea what the term actually implies.

redapple

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 1:55 pm

amother Green wrote:

Thats how it should be, not with the term mesorah being used to make you feel guilt and shame in how you live your life.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 2:00 pm

I related to the OP very much. Mesorah was very much used in my childhood to keep us in line, not asking "why" and just compliant in general. And it worked. Thank goodness I am a female and thus I can now follow my husband's mesorah which is not the same as my parents. And they have no say in the matter.

GLUE

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 2:04 pm

I read once on Imamother "If I am older then the Minhug then it does not apply to me".

Where does the Minhug come from and why does the kid not want to do it?
Those are really the questions. Was the Minhug came from practicality?
Here's an example, in many parts of Europe people where to poor to own two sets of dishes so many had one set of glass where they used one side for Meat and one side for dairy.
A parent can't argue that it's the families mesorah\minhug two have only one set of glass dishes. Things that are brought down as real Minhugiam on the other hand(can't think of any right now)is a question for a Rav.
However if a child chooses to follow a different Rav then their parents and they follow all the way not just pick and chose then the parents can't say don't do this it's not Mesorah, because where did the parents Mesorah come from?

Children should also try not to antagonize their parents and should try hard not to blatantly do this they don't like in front of them. Many times it's not possible but if it is try to take the hi road.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 2:25 pm

redapple wrote:

yes but it is not the childs place to demand that from a parent.

what the parent has to work on is their cheshbon but a kid cant expect/demand this.

no one said kibbud av veim is easy. in fact I forgot who but someone in gemara who was an orphan is know to say hes so greatful that he is an orphan because he will never have the onesh of one who
trangesses this.

thats why I said before that the answer is not 2024 correct - the idea of authoritarian parents who are not our friends but our PARENTS. and who children are expected to hold in respect and awe - is just not popular.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 2:29 pm

amother Junglegreen wrote:

Here’s a better question.

What would Orthodox Judaism look differently today without mesorah?

Right off the bat:

Yeshivish/chassidish men’s black and white uniforms
Shabbos menu
Hamen tashen

see I think thats where we can get confused between whats cultural, whats mesorah, and whats minhag

I think these are all very different things. and probably everyone would have a different interpretation.

theres a difference when something is connected to halacha ie: wearing a gartel

or something that is cultural ie: eating gefilte fish (traditional)

Unigala

Wed, Mar 06 2024, 2:32 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

its interesting because mesorah was a big theme in my house growing up and played a huge role in our lives and chinuch.

but for us it was a point of pride! it was a way of connecting to our past. like, see where we come from! frum yidden back to har sinai with our unique ways of doing things.