Are basement apartments legal?

amother

Khaki

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:17 am

Laws vary by municipality, but most basement apartments are illegal. It's entirely possible to build or retrofit to be compliant with local codes, but it can be expensive. The two biggest issues are fire and flooding. You usually need two dedicated means of egress, iow two different ways to get out of the apartment directly to the outside without going through the main house. Hurricane Ida killed some people in NYC who were trapped in their basement apartments.

BTW there's a difference between a basement apartment, which is partly aboveground and can be made legal (though it's costly) and a cellar apartment, which is completely below ground and is totally illegal, at least in NYC.

I'm not even talking about zoning here, which is a somewhat artificial concept, just about safety. An apartment can comply with all safety codes and still be illegal in the sense that it violates zoning laws.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:36 am

amother Khaki wrote:

We have a legal 3 family house in Brooklyn. Basement is a legal apartment and is totally underground. We have had inspections after we did construction and they all passed.

I don’t know why people assume that every basement in Brooklyn is “totally illegal”.

Also, people that say “totally illegal” I’ve found many times don’t know what they’re talking about.

There is Legal and Illegal.

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:49 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

In NYC (at least) there is a legal difference between a basement and a cellar and it has to do with the amount of space that is above ground.

Most older homes in places like New York City have what would legally be cellars where very little is above ground and so there are almost no windows and if there are windows, they are too small for even a child to get out of.

Also typically there really isn't even one direct access to get out in the event of a fire because most of them have a flight of stairs to get to the back door or side door and that is the only way out.

The windows are too small to escape from in the event of a fire and it would be very possible that the only way out would be blocked in the event of a fire - depending on where the stairs led to.

There is no way to have a legal apartment in those kinds of cellars. The reality is that they are fine to have as a play space or equivalent but I wouldn't even use them for someone to sleep in because they represent such a potential danger in the event of a fire.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:56 am

amother Khaki wrote:

Many/most basements in nyc are 100% legal. You can have a fully underground legal apartment. Read the laws if you want to know how.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:57 am

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

Have you heard of egress windows? Or doors to an underground basement? I've been in many legal basements with a front and back down and egress windows. What are you talking about. They are not "cellars"

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:59 am

amother Lemon wrote:

Many/most basements in nyc are 100% legal. You can have a fully underground legal apartment. Read the laws if you want to know how.

You didn't read what I wrote - the issue is whether you can have the necessary two forms of egress.

I grew up in an older home in Brooklyn and there would be no way to provide two forms of egress in the "basement".

Please explain where the second form of egress is in most New York City "basements" since they are generally older and built with "cellars" and not basements.

It would be difficult if not impossible to provide the second form of egress.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:02 am

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

You didn't read what I wrote - the issue is whether you can have the necessary two forms of egress.

I grew up in an older home in Brooklyn and there would be no way to provide two forms of egress in the "basement".

Please explain where the second form of egress is in most New York City homes since they are generally older and built with "cellars" and not basements.

It would be difficult if not impossible to provide the second form of egress.

NYC includes many boroughs. Many have new houses firstly. Secondly even older ones have enough doors and ways out. People also put egress windows in. Not sure what to tell you. Have you really been in every single basement in the thousands of houses in nyc? I've been in quite a lot that did have egress windows and doors out. That is what makes it legal. They can be legal and many are. Are some illegal yes. But it's just not the truth to claim they can't possibly be legal.

amother

Oak

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:03 am

I’m assuming in NJ, most are illegal at least in terms of renting out

Just for whether or not a basement is legally allowed to be slept in (which multiple factors go into making it legal, the biggest being fire safety like egress windows), I’d assume a lot of basements are not up to code

For actually renting out, obviously the basement has to be legal for sleeping and living, and the landlord would need to get a COO prior to each tenant, otherwise it’s illegal.

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:12 am

amother Lemon wrote:

You wrote most homes in NYC would have "legal" basements.

What you really mean is that many newer homes are built with basements that were built in a manner that enables them to have two forms of egress. These might exist in newer areas that were built in outlaying areas of Queens for example or if a house was torn down which also occurs.

The typical home in the established older neighborhoods of NYC - especially in the frum neighborhoods is an older home and almost certainly doesn't have what could be used as a legal sleeping area.

I have been in enough older homes in my life to be completely familiar with the construction and how it is different from newer construction which often was designer with a higher ceiling and a walk out door in some way.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:20 am

Some homes in nyc have what used to be servant quarters and those are legal. My parents have that. Separate entrance and 2 ways to get out in case of fire. Windows that at least partially go to the outside. But my house, built in 1930, basement is a cellar and definitely not legal. Didn't stop former owners from renting out but I wouldn't let anyone live down there. The air isn't even clean because of lack of ventilation. You have to do your research. Ima mother is not a source.