Feels so unfair re: boys collecting

amother

Gray

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:04 pm

Um, I am more bothered by the idea that a teenage boy is around "drunken parties" where alcohol and money flow free.
That is not purim. Kids should not be exposed to that and assume that is the correct way to celebrate.
Kids should not be around alcohol... so many current addicts got their start as kids on Purim and Simchas Torah and Kiddush clubs where alcohol was not monitored. I work in the field. The danger is real. Especially when under 26- as the brain isn't fully formed please don't let them drink! It can permanently change their brain when they don't have the knowledge or maturity to deal with it!! And they associate alcohol with fun, relaxation, parties...

Genius

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:08 pm

amother Gray wrote:

It’s normal to be around alcohol on Purim. Protest loose alcohol every week at kiddushim. Teach teens to not get drunk and adults to drink responsibly. But they will be around it and it’s fine once a year.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:18 pm

amother Gray wrote:

He’s not a teen yet, the drunken parties are literally everywhere, and I am not concerned in the slightest that he will drink. This is very much cultural.

amother

Gardenia

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 4:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

This actually makes sense. When you put it that way.
It was just the way he said it as if it’s beneath him, that made me worry that he’s developing some kind of attitude.

There isn’t anything wrong with that, it’s human nature to be embarrassed to ask others for money, even if it’s for tzedaka for someone else

A person having to be a “beggar” is very embarrassing and shameful. Literally according to the Torah. It has nothing to do with how they view themselves or if think they are better than anyone else

amother

Lemonchiffon

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 4:40 pm

If the yeshivas wouldnt be earning so much money from the boys going around collecting they wouldnt allow it imo.
The prizes being offered from the organizations for the boys for collecting is so crazy. I explained to my kids that the person dontaing the prizes is doing so from theyre maaser money. So basically the kids are collecting tzedaka but then accepting tzedaka. I only allow them to collect for theyre cheider. Feel like I dont have a choice on purim but to allow.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 4:58 pm

Yes going door to door makes one feel exactly like a beggar. In my opinion it teaches humility & sensitivity. Hopefully as adults these boys will be on the giving end & remember what it felt like to ask & be generous. OP- I don't know how old ur son is but chinuch takes time to seep in. Sounds like your heart is in the right place & as your son matures hopefully he will have absorbed your message..

amother

Begonia

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 5:01 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Totally Totally disagree sorry
Not sure how you got to this conclusion
Children's brains don't think like this

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 5:01 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Thanks. Yeah I try, but I also worry, because as we all know as parents, there’s only so much we can do.

Tzutzie

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 5:27 pm

I understand what you're saying.

You don't like your sons attitude about it.
Part if the idea of making boys knock in doors is the help them overcome their ego and here it's actually feeding his ego....

Maybe tell him he can only go with dh to those parties if he does 30 minutes if door to door? Would that go down ok?

Personally I also don't like the idea of giving kids treats for more money. I think both effort and and results should be celebrated.

Around here, boys don't necessarily collect for the yeshiva. Half the boys go around for the shul fund (we are building a new shul and money is hard to come by
...)
It'd a kosher way to keep the kids occupied on the long Fridays and on taanis eshter. (The LONGEST day of the year!)

But my nephew's call all the time, dh says he will give but in exchange he needs a chiddush on the weekly pasha and that sends them scrambling and opening sefarim.... by now they already know to come with a ready one.... He makes them work for it. LOL

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 5:35 pm

Tzutzie wrote:

Yes exactly. It makes him think in a certain direction and highlights the differences between him and his classmates in a way that isn’t age appropriate. I wish he’d stay innocent for longer.
I’m not comfortable making him go door to door or restricting his party going with his father. I think both of these would cross a line. I teach my kids to take responsibility for their own success so I feel this would be me overstepping and trying to control the process.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 5:58 pm

I didn't read the whole thread. But this concept is driving me CRAZY. why do my kids have to be beggars. Why do they have to collect money all Purim. It's a yom tov. Let the kids enjoy. This is their holiday. Why is the whole day that they must collect a certain amount. It's disgusting. I pay full tuition. My kids don't need to be beggars.
My boys are getting a ton of pressure from their classmates. Every single kids MUST collect the $650 or no one in the class can go on the trip. So my boys have a huge responsibility because other wise the whole class will be fuming at whoever didn't bring in the full amount. I can't understand it. Yeshiva said it's important to teach the boys to have hakaros hatov. Where is one of the mitzvahs that you must collect and beg for money? Why can't kids be kids???????? This is literally their yom tov

amother

Stone

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

Every year ds cheder announces who collected the most money the previous year.
This year ds name was fourth on the list. Out of 400 kids.
Last Purim ds didn’t knock on a single door. He just tagged along with dh to some wild drunken parties where cash freely flowed and viola.
So ofcourse this year he tells me “I’m not going door to door like a beggar”.
While the boys knocking on my door all day will never reach nearly those amounts.
It just feels so unfair and I don’t like that this is the attitude he’s developed. Not really sure what I can do about it? I’m not going to actively prevent him from opportunities to collect.
I try hard to teach my kids, actively and by example, to not be materialistic and snobby or whatever.
To an extent I think I’m succeeding but there’s only so much I can do and this just bothers me. I didn’t grow up like this.
This is just a vent thanks for listening

Keep him home and make him go door to door then. You're the parent

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:04 pm

I am so mad. My nieces and nephews have been calling that they need to raise x amount and if we can please donate. I hate walking in the streets of boro park on Purim. All you have all day is hundreds of kids pushing their tzedaka puska in your face. You can't walk a block without being harassed by tons of kids. Literally beggars. Yeshivas have campaigns. Dinners. Tuition. Government programs and grants.... DO NOT USE MY KIDS AS BEGGERS. I can't take it. Bit yeshiva has literally been drilling into them how they HAVE to collect and how can a boy be a kofei tov and it's an embarrassment to the yeshiva anyone that doesn't bring in a minimum of a few hundred......

amother

Gardenia

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:43 pm

amother Seagreen wrote:

Why don’t all the parents of the class get together and tell the school that none of their kids are participating?

Change won’t happen unless we make it happen

amother

Gray

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 8:20 pm

Genius wrote:

I do get upset at kiddush clubs etc. I mentioned that in my post. By the way, my shul has zero alcohol at kiddush and no kiddush clubs. When I mentioned a bottle being hidden at the shul they were appalled and told me that they didn't approve it.

I teach my kids not to get drunk or even drink at all until they are an adult.

But it is not ok. How many more stories of kids needing to be hospitalized or CV dead before we realize the issue? If you have alcohol- be responsible, make someone watch over the bottle and make sure no kids drink or no adult gets too drunk. And take away car keys!!!
So many kids need their stomach pumped or given banana bags in the ER or pass out and almost choke to death on their own vomit. Mix any pills in there (even accidentally- they might be prescribed something contraindicated with alcohol)--- can lead to a quick overdose.

I work in addictions. And yes, so many bochurim from fine good homes tell me that they got their first taste at someone's purim party and had too much and never was able to really control it again. While it didnt cause their addiction, it didnt help and the fact that they were young, immature, and reckless impacted the situation. And they want people to know and they wonder if they waited until they were more mature could they have prevented it...

amother

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:01 am

Update: he made 700$ tzeddaka and 200+ in purim gelt, in addition to the gift certificate he will get from the cheder for bringing in money. Should I laugh or cry? to the poster who said hustling means working smarter not harder maybe you were right. He sure knows how to get money out of people.
Im just in shock and not sure how to feel about this.
I do hope his mazel will continue to shine

amother

Salmon

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 9:56 am

No one is forcing the boys to do it. If your son found a way to collect a lot of tzeddaka for the school, I would see that as a good thing, he found a smart and effective way to do it and he is giving the money for a good cause. Boys who stand in front of places with a lot of traffic like grocery stores and shuls will bring back more money. I wouldn’t say that he isn’t working for it , having the energy and even just the guts and the words , and the time to ask people is work and it’s a skill. If you don’t like the idea of him tagging along to these parties, that is a different problem.