S/o why seminaries ask if a girl was in therapy PSA

amother

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:33 am

I remember a while back there were several threads on this. Many posters were saying it is not fair to girls who had MH struggles in high school to discriminate like this. I can't find those threads now, but I wanted to post a PSA here.

I have a family member in seminary this year. There was a girl in her class who was, in her words "obsessed" with her, like she thought she was g-d and can do no wrong. This girl started coming to her with all her deepest darkest thoughts, fears and feelings. This made her (my family member) very uncomfy and stressed. Then after a while of this, this girl pulled her aside and told her that it all is too much for her and she is going to commit suicide. She ended up talking to her for hours and hours before she calmed her down enough that the girl would go to sleep, after which she right away called her principal to let her know what was going on. (Obviously this kid told her she's not allowed to tell anyone.) This girl ended up playing mind games on my family member for a few days, telling her that she will commit suicide, never mind, she won't, she's sorry she put her through that, etc. Rinse and repeat. Despite the fact that she had already reported it to the principal, who WAS dealing with it, getting her appointments by therapists and psychiatrists and being in touch with her parents, that didn't stop this kid from cornering her at 2 AM and playing on her heartstrings all over again for a few days straight.

This was especially frightening and concerning for her since there was already an incident this year where such a thing actually happened, so it didn't seem so "far out" anymore.

My family member is now traumatized. She did not eat or sleep normally for over a week while this was going on. The seminary is working on getting her a therapist to talk to but it takes time...

The cherry on top is that it seems that this kid did have known emotional issues that were hidden from the seminary. Now because she came with her emotional issues to seminary, where they presumably only got worse, she ended up traumatizing another girl and casting a big pall on her year in seminary.

Is that fair?

Many times anxiety, depression, OCD, etc get worse when in seminary due to lack of sleep, being away from familiar environment, stress and so on. Seminary in Israel is a major setback in many cases. So if a girl is doing well at home, the best idea is to keep her home and send to a local seminary, where she will continue to grow and thrive.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:42 am

I'm sorry your family member had to deal with this
Just because seminaries are asking this doesn't mean girls and parents will say the truth because they're scared of not being accepted.
Girls whose conditions are under control can do better than those who never took care of it.
There are all kinds of scenarios. Seminary life away from family, the routine, in a new and unknown country brings out so many things in girls.
My daughter was on meds for anxiety, adjusted beautifully, and was a confidante for quite a few girls, including with much more severe issues.

amother

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:45 am

You are 100% right. Everyone needs to know themselves and know their children. Many times it is in the girl's own best interest to NOT go to sem in Israel, even though that's what she really wants. It doesn't help anyone to lie on the application if in all likelihood, the issues will be exacerbated in seminary. I'm not talking about simple issues that are under constant control. It sounds like you were on top of the situation while she was in sem also. If she would have not been doing well, you would have heard...

amother

Tomato

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:49 am

I really agree, op. A friend of mine had a few (!!) friends who were suicidal in seminary. People think that sending a girl who is having emotional issues away will help if the emotional issues stem from family issues because she’ll get distance from her family but usually, it just worsens the emotional issues and makes the girl desperately reach out to seminary friends for support because of how much pain she is in, which then ruins their sem experience.

I myself had family issues that caused mental health issues and seminary was an absolutely awful experience straight out of hell. Putting a girl who is anxious just from regular life into a country where everything and everyone is new, and she needs to take care of herself more than she ever has before doesn’t make any sense. It took years for me to recover.

Peersupport

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:56 am

The problem is that they reject these girls, so instead of the seminary having a heads-up and making sure that the girl has a support system set up in Israel, it becomes a big secret and is left untreated.

The problem is that the rejection forces people to hide it, not that girls with emotional issues cannot go to seminary.

Additionally, please don't talk about people having suicidal thoughts as playing mind games.
They aren't playing mind games. To them it's very real.

Your relative should definitely process this experience in therapy, but it isn't the end of the world that this happened to them. She knew to inform a trusted adult to take over when it got too much for her to handle.

We meet all kinds of people in life.
It can happen in school, camp, seminary, a neighbor, a family member etc.
We can't always control our environment, but we can prepare our children to meet the world.

Peersupport

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 10:00 am

amother Tomato wrote:

Very often parents do not know that their child is suicidal, and the kid might not even be in therapy.
Mental health stigmas need to go away so our children feel safe talking to adults and attending therapy.

Of course going away overseas can make it worse. But the parents may have not known that anything was up.

amother

NeonBlue

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 10:00 am

amother OP wrote:

Wasn’t there a girl who committed suicide in a prominent seminary recently?! People just don’t say their kids need help they just want them to get in

amother

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 10:10 am

Peersupport wrote:

Additionally, please don't talk about people having suicidal thoughts as playing mind games.
They aren't playing mind games. To them it's very real.

I apologize for that. I don't think I meant it in the way that you took it. I meant it in the way that my family member felt like she was on a rollercoaster- yes I will... no I wont... don't tell anyone... omg Mrs. X told me you were traumatized, I'm so sorry I didnt mean to... the pain is too much for me I can't deal with it anymore...

I'm not saying she did this intentionally. I know she was in tremendous pain and turmoil. But my family member is not her doormat and she ended up feeling used and traumatized by all the ups and downs.

amother

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 10:12 am

amother Burgundy wrote:

Umm, they ask very specific questions that the parents, student, and doctor have to answer about mental health history, meds etc.
So all 3 parties are lying? My kid has a mental health history; we were very honest and explained what happened and her current situation. (she is on meds). So did her Dr.
B"H she got into a very good and popular seminary.
This lying thing is crazy!

That's great! The seminary knows her situation and can be on the lookout for anything amiss.

You only stand to gain from telling the truth.

amother

Nemesia

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 10:16 am

[quote="amother NeonBlue"]Wasn’t there a girl who committed suicide in a prominent seminary recently?! People just don’t say their kids need help they just want them to get in[/qzuote]

I think it is really rude and insensitive to reference a specific incident. Maybe this girl's mother or sisters are on the site, and reading this, and you are in essence blaming them for what happened?

How do you know they kept it secret? Maybe they were open about it with the seminary. Maybe her psychiatrist and therapist cleared her to go to seminary.

amother

Copper

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 11:43 am

There's actually a simple solution here. Ask these questions AFTER acceptance. That way, people will be more likely to be honest, plus you can arrange things like someone to keep an eye on the situation, therapy in Israel etc. I actually had this with the seminary I went to. After I was accepted, this was asked as part of registration. I was diagnosed with depression as a teen, my parents were honest about that on the form. The seminary had a social worker who called a few over the summer to get a fuller picture and work out a plan (which was very minimal, I was in a good place at that point and didn't require much). I met with her from time to time once I was there to make sure I was doing well mentally. Had a great year, a great experience. I'm so glad I didn't have to choose between being honest and risking the loss of a great opportunity.

amother

Narcissus

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 11:47 am

I went to seminary years ago and once there I spiraled and ended up with an MH diagnosis. I was always shy and anxious but was fine until seminary. I went to camp every summer etc.

So it’s not always the case that parents hide it …

amother Burgundy wrote:

The seminary asks each student to have a doctor sign off on their application regarding mental health? Or is this because you disclosed an MH issue?

amother

Ballota

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 11:49 am

The big issue is the lack of acceptance and awareness in the frum community. Schools won't accept kids on meds. Seminaries won't accept kids who have been to therapy. People won't look at a shidduch of someone who is/was on meds or in therapy.

Instead of looking like it is the same as taking asthma meds, having high blood pressure, or wearing glasses.

So people don't get help. Don't talk about it. Lie. So the secrets keep coming and it makes the stigma worse. And people get hurt in the process, people don't get help and no one is better off.

I work in mental health/addiction. If only I could tell you the last names of the people I see... mental health and addiction doesn't discriminate. End the stigma!!

amother

Narcissus

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 11:52 am

amother Nemesia wrote:

I think it is really rude and insensitive to reference a specific incident. Maybe this girl's mother or sisters are on the site, and reading this, and you are in essence blaming them for what happened?

How do you know they kept it secret? Maybe they were open about it with the seminary. Maybe her psychiatrist and therapist cleared her to go to seminary.

Or maybe she didn’t have a history of mental health challenges. The human brain is more complex than people think.

OP’s relative should have approached an adult sooner. As soon as she started feeling uncomfortable with the relationship. I think HS girls need to be educated on red flags among their peers and how to deal with it maturely.

amother

Watermelon

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 12:04 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

No, you stand to lose your place in seminary, because they're allowed to discriminate. This is why people hide in the first place.

Any seminary that you would lose your place in for disclosing those types of issues is not a seminary you would want your child to be in. Many seminaries ask about these issues so they can be well prepared to help your child get through the year with support, as was mentioned up thread. If a seminary genuinely doesn't accept a kid with mental health issues, you wouldn't want your child there because they won't know how to deal with her.