"Different" Children - don't let it come to this !

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:32 pm

I WAS KIDDING. I thought it was weird that as he was smoking he keeled over and then wound up with a bandage on his head. Kind of ridiculous... But that wasn't the point, right? The whole thing was a bit far fetched but I still got the message.

yo'ma

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:40 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

I'm with you on this. I think everyone should listen to the words and not watch the video and maybe then they'll get the point. Except for the cancer part, I didn't get that. It's not a bandage on his head, it's a hair covering because he supposedly had chemo and is bald.

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:43 pm

yo'ma wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

Look at that. I ALSO missed some important things LOL. Look, the whole cancer thing was a bit ridiculous, but I guess that's how they made their point to not wait till it's too late. That much we all figured out, right?

amother

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:46 pm

cassandra wrote:

su7kids wrote:

The common excuse is that they are a bad influence on the younger children.

Then they must have very little faith in their own chinuch abilities and the veracity of what they are teaching their children.

Unfortunately, what they're teaching their children is not to have true ahavas yisroel.
(I'm talking from my own experience. I have 4 boys, ka"h - 1 with black kipa and hat, 2 with "yechi" Kipas, and one with a (smallish) kipa sruga. Actually, the biggest issue at home was over the "yechi" Kipas, not the knitted one, and it came from my teenage girls, mot me. My message to them was that ahavas yisroel means tolerance for your fellow Jew and his opinion that may differ from yours, and that it starts at home.)

greenfire

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:47 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

Sometimes seichel isn't enough. When you have to choose between the young and impressionable and the rebel. I have witnessed firsthand the anguish of mothers of children like this. And I've seen the whole situation and its effects from very close up. That's why I can listen to and respect the opinion of someone like the amother above who has been there and done that (unfortunately). Anyone who has not been in their shoes doesn't have a clue. And what's right for one family may not be right for another.

that is the whole point YOU NEVER CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cassandra

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:50 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

One more thing Clarissa - Go stand in the corner for missing the point of the clip. I think Cassandra is already there.

In my defense, su7kids, who posted the clip confirmed that it was the point of the clip and the tenor of the discussion went from there. And I totally don't get it, I didn't know he had cancer, I thought it was a drug overdose. I didn't realize that drinking from a can is code in chareidi for drugs and s-x, but smoking is just smoking and teenagers die of lung cancer from one cigarette.

And to you too, CM, I guess you disagree with the clip too. Parents can shun kids for doing things they don't agree with.

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:53 pm

ora_43 wrote:

cassandra wrote:

That's what the video was talking about.

The video showed him drinking beer, which from what I could tell was meant to show that he was "rebellious," not just wearing jeans. Obviously they're not going to show him doing truly bad things in a video meant for religious viewers, but IMO they made it clear that it wasn't just a question of the kid being MO instead of hareidi.

Quote:

And who's condemning others? Just because I can't imagine sacrificing one child for the perceived rescue of another? I don't think that has anything to do with the age of my children.

Greenfire, I'm curious how you would answer the question that Ora threw out here. It's all well and wonderful to make declarations about not choosing etc. but what would you do if a bad situation like this came up?

greenfire

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:55 pm

cassandra wrote:

I didn't realize that drinking from a can is code in chareidi for drugs and s-x, but smoking is just smoking and teenagers die of lung cancer from one cigarette.

it was probably pot silly ... that will cause all sorts of things even from just the smell ...

su7kids

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:56 pm

Mimisinger wrote:

Chossidmom, I usually agree with everything you say, but regardless of reality as you know it or not, putting an otd kid in a kippah seruga is offensive. It means that my dh, who btw, is very learned, a big mensch, teaches daf yomi, davens 3x/day, learns, etc. etc. etc. is somehow similar to a kid who went otd. It's hard for people like us but in the same vein, it makes sense why you wouldn't get the offense.

Yes a kid drinking beer in the kitchen and sleeping in Times Square are not good behaviors, but give me a break. It doesn't show any other kids in the house for whom he can be a bad influence on and I think it's horrible that a father would throw him out instead of getting him help, detox, and would only come to him when he's in the hospital and dead.

Mimi, I think you missed the point.

The point is the boy is very different from his family. Regardless of what kind of kippa he has, his father is WHITE SHIRT/BLACK PANTS, long payos, and this boy is in jeans and a shirt and doing all the other rebellious things.

I think the message of the video is not to reject our children who are different from us. Reading into the details of what kippa, which kind of bekishe the father is wearing, what disease he had ( and a boy dying like that would not be able to lift his arms the way this one did.... probably), etc.

There is a message in the song and the video, not in the DETAILS.

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:57 pm

cassandra wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

One more thing Clarissa - Go stand in the corner for missing the point of the clip. I think Cassandra is already there.

A. You don't need a defense
B. LOL. You didn't realize he had cancer? I noticed the cancer but didn't realize it was a head covering. I thought he had a brain tumor or something. I totally didn't think "drugs".
C. I don't know if I agree or disagree. I do agree that it's important not to stop loving them and making them realize that their home will always be their home. THAT BEING SAID there have to be certain ground rules that apply to all the people living in the home.
D. I got the message of the video and cried from the first minute. Because I see this alot. "This" meaning children who are falling by the wayside. Not necessarily drunks and drug addicts. Most of them are living at home.

greenfire

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 3:59 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

And who's condemning others? Just because I can't imagine sacrificing one child for the perceived rescue of another? I don't think that has anything to do with the age of my children.

You can't imagine ever sending one child away for the benefit of another? What if an older child with serious problems is causing several younger children to feel unsafe? Or is openly drinking or using drugs around the house?

Greenfire, I'm curious how you would answer the question that Ora threw out here. It's all well and wonderful to make declarations about not choosing etc. but what would you do if a bad situation like this came up?

to answer you're question I simply love them ALL UNCONDITIONALLY !!!

ora_43

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:00 pm

cassandra wrote:

Maybe not drinking, but if my child was openly using drugs in the home I'd probably call the police. That's harmful. I meant in this situation, where your child is "different". The "differentness" seemed to me to be the message of the video, not the dangerous behaviors.

I was thinking of what ChossidMom said, not the video.

Quote:

of not smart enough to understand the nuances and innuendo of frum video productions.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude. I just meant, while a kippa and beer wasn't the best choice to show "off the derech," what were they supposed to show? They can't show him messing around with girls. They can't show him doing drugs--as effective as it would be, this is meant for a frum audience that presumably doesn't want to see such things even for educational purposes. The bad behavior can only be hinted at.

Quote:

And I take it you disagree with the video.

What do you mean? I didn't find it tearjerking, or very effective at all, if that's what you're saying. Or are you talking about the "don't kick your kids out" message? I definitely agree that kids shouldn't be kicked out with no notice, in a fit of anger, and left to wander the streets. But I know people who've had to make one kid leave, or in one case even take out a restraining order, and IMO they did the right thing in their circumstances (which involved things much worse than knitted kippot).

su7kids

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:00 pm

cassandra wrote:

Well, someone who has well-behaving teens can't relate either. Perhaps this should be in the private forum for mothers of kids who have issues.

Being the OP, let me explain why its NOT in a private forum.

Did you see the title? DON"T LET IT COME TO THIS. In my opinion anyone who is a parent MUST see this video.

Especially those of you with small children. Mine are all older, and I have at least one who is somewhat rebellious, and I cried for him and his friends who, if not kicked out of the house, were told by their parents that if they can't abide by the rules of the house, they can't stay in the house, so it was the child's choice not to live at home. One of said children has moved back home, and is still not "black hat" but has worked things out with his parents, which warms my heart tremendously.

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:00 pm

greenfire wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

And who's condemning others? Just because I can't imagine sacrificing one child for the perceived rescue of another? I don't think that has anything to do with the age of my children.

to answer you're question I simply love them ALL UNCONDITIONALLY !!!

And the younger chilren who are getting beaten up on or who are starting to drink or curse - How is your unconditional love going to help them with a black eye or a dislocated shoulder? I'm not talking in theory here. I've seen it.

su7kids

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:04 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

HE GOT CANCER BECAUSE HE SMOKED. Isn't that obvious? (That's why he had a bandage on his head). All of us imamothers know that smoking is a worse crime than murder (because you kill everyone around you too). There have been quite a few threads here where imamothers don't get how some of us can ALLOW our husbands to smoke.

I didn't see that much background to this video at all. Where did you get it from?

greenfire

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:06 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

greenfire wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

And who's condemning others? Just because I can't imagine sacrificing one child for the perceived rescue of another? I don't think that has anything to do with the age of my children.

to answer you're question I simply love them ALL UNCONDITIONALLY !!!

I assure you that if I answered you fully and truthfully - you would need to send someone to scrape me off the floor ...

don't assume what you do not know ...

ora_43

Mon, Sep 08 2008, 4:07 pm

greenfire wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

to answer you're question I simply love them ALL UNCONDITIONALLY !!!

That's not an answer. Of course you love them all. But if one is victimizing another, what physical course of action do you take?