Healthcare (USA) | Imamother

MrsLeo

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 7:09 pm

Pickle Lady wrote:

$5000....is that per person?

John McCain Will Reform The Tax Code To Offer More Choices Beyond Employer-Based Health Insurance Coverage. While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider. Those obtaining innovative insurance that costs less than the credit can deposit the remainder in expanded Health Savings Accounts.

Here are the details:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Info.....f.htm

red sea

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 7:57 pm

I cant vote because I really dont know the details of either plan nor if they will ever get it passed anyway. I heard (idk if its true or not) that mccain plans to also make the employer deductions taxable - that is bad for regular working people but centralizing medicine is also bad in many ways. I think both of them should keep themselves busy with other issues and not ruin healthcare even worse than it is. {s/t its best to leave things alone - if only someone let the iran-iraq war keep going they would still be fighting each other instead of the rest of the world, but s/o had a brilliant idea.}

First Lady

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:23 pm

Obama's plan is sort of like the healthcare plan that they have in Canada. True everyone is covered, but then you can say bye bye to a good health care plan with great doctors offering good and accomodating service.
Just listening to some of the birth experiences of some of my Canadian family and friends gives me the chills and makes me want to stay miles away from such a health care plan in the US.

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:25 pm

First Lady wrote:

So what is going to happen to all the top doctors from now? will they stop practicing or will they not be so committed anymore?

MrsLeo

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:29 pm

"Ideally, Obama would like all Americans to have free health insurance. He would set up a marketplace where families and individuals can choose between private plans and government-run plans like Medicare. Insurance companies would be required to insure people regardless of whether they were sick or not. Parents would be required to insure their children. Large companies would be required to either offer acceptable insurance plans, or pay into the government's health fund."

First Lady

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:32 pm

Mrs. XYZ wrote:

First Lady wrote:

So what is going to happen to all the top doctors from now? will they stop practicing or will they not be so committed anymore?

One thing I can tell you. In Canada, many people pay cash "under the table" to get priority or accomodating service.

BinahYeteirah

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:47 pm

As I've said before, central healthcare works great here in Australia. I'd be over the moon to have a similar system in America. Here, there is always the option of "going private" if one wants a specific doctor or type of care not covered by the national plan; there is no need to "pay under the table". Generally, this isn't necessary, however, because public heathcare is quite good.

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:55 pm

BinahYeteirah wrote:

So all the 'top doctors" do only private? And there are enough people who use them to keep them in business?

BinahYeteirah

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 9:33 pm

B"H, I haven't needed much specialty medical care, so I might not have everything 100% correct, but I will tell you what I know.

There are very good doctors working both privately and in the public system. Many doctors do both. Private health insurance here is much more reasonably priced than it is in the US, because even if you use a private hospital or doctor, the government still pays a portion of the costs. Many people (most?) have private health insurance, but it isn't necessary to have. I don't have it, but I still get good healthcare without it. It seems like there is plenty of business for private doctors.

For example, when a woman is hiring a doctor or midwife for care during pregnancy and birth, she can chose either system (public or private) or she can be a private patient in a public hospital. If a woman goes 100% public, she will choose the hospital she where wants to give birth. Each hospital has different programs. Some people just chose the one that is closest, but often people pick the one that they like the best of ones within a reasonable distance. You can choose to be seen by a team of doctors or a team of midwives, and in at least one case I know of, you can choose a program where you'll have the same midwife for all your appointments. If a woman decides on the private system, she can chose a doctor or midwife who works privately and give birth in a private hospital. She could have all her appointments with that one doctor or perhaps only the doctors in his practice, and be sure that have that doctor when she gives birth, whereas in the public system she would generally get whoever is on call at that time (usually the doctor or midwife would be from a certain team, so she would have met him or her before). A lot of people have private health insurance and still go to public hospitals, because they are good. As far as I know, they aren't inferior in any way. The only extra thing I can think of that a private patient would get in a public hospital is a private room if her insurance covers that (usually rooms are shared).

tovarena

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 5:53 am

Mrs. XYZ wrote:

So what is going to happen to all the top doctors from now? will they stop practicing or will they not be so committed anymore?

Some may very well stop practicing. Here in Florida, many OB/GYNs already have stopped practicing or gone to gyn only practices due to malpractice insurance prices. And most of those that are still practicing make you sign a waiver up front that they don't carry malpractice but have joined some sort of a very limited resources pool that gives the patient very little recourse should something go wrong.

In terms of this idea of government funded healthcare. Can you think of anything that the government does efficiently or pleasantly? Have you ever had to go to a dmv, social security, or other government office? Possibly waited hours and hourse and had to go from one line to the next just to be told, sorry, it's the wrong day? Or that you don't have the right documentation with you? Try to think about those experiences and then apply it to your, or your children's, doctors. The concept truly gives me chills.

Even without socialized healthcare, already in the US, "concierge healthcare" is a very up and coming business sector. For those dr.s who are fed up with the pennies on the dollar that insurance is offering, and for those patients who are sick of waiting hours in dr.'s offices just to get 4 minutes with the dr., they have started a new business model where you not only have insurance but then you pay an additional per month or per year premium to see a dr. that has no more than x patients. And you're supposed to get much more personalized care. That would no doubt be the sort of model that would explode were healthcare to be socialized. So government will be taxing us through the nose so that everyone can have healthcare of some type. And then to get responsible, caring healthcare, many people will end up choosing to pay another premium on top of it. It's definitely not something I want to see happen.

red sea

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 5:54 am

I think with such a plan a big majority of the good dr's will go private & pple will go into greater debt to use them because most pple with access to loans who need specialty medicine just would do that. Result would be middle class deeper in debt. Poor & rich would not be deeply affected. Yup, I am convinced both plans majorly mess up the middle class even more and dont have much of an effect on anyone else.

Raisin

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 6:29 am

red sea wrote:

In many countries with socialised medicine good drs have both private and public patients. Eg I have to take one of my kids to see a specialist. they gave me a public appointment in about 8 months, but told me if I want to pay privately I can see him much sooner.

tovarena

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 7:05 am

Pickle Lady wrote:

Alot of top doctors don't take health insurance so what is the difference.

And alot do. But referring to the top 1-2% of dr.s versus HAVING to go private with ANY of them to get good service are two very different issues.

Pickle Lady wrote:

Also there are alot of things that the government runs and they work fine. USPS, train systems, airports.

At least where I live, the airports are owned by the county, not the federal government. And I'm not sure I would consider USPS or Amtrak to be particularly successful business. But regardless, even they are not true government organizations. From wikipedia:

List of quasi-governmental organizations in the United States

* Amtrak
* Federal Reserve System
* Metrorail, Washington, D.C.
* National Fire Protection Association
* Reedy Creek Improvement District owned by The Walt Disney Company in Florida
* United States Postal Service

Other quasi-governmental organizations or services

* Commuter rail
* Standards Organizations
* Toll roads

Pickle Lady wrote:

Many companies are already choosing not to insure their employees and people are turning to government covered health insurance.

Maybe this is different based on geography, but I know of no employers that have stopped offering insurance. Just looking at DH and myself, between my 18 year career and DH's 20 year career with probably with roughly 12 employers between us, we have never had an employer that did not offer health insurance. Some were more expensive than others, but it's always been available. And that's for companies ranging in size from 8 to 5000 employees.

Raisin

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 7:12 am

red sea wrote:

I know that socialized medicine works decently in numerous countries but you have to factor in the dr's reactions to switching systems, when they worked themselves to the bone going thru school & taking loan upon loan socialized medicine is not what they had in mind. I highly doubt either plan would really pass as is.

And of course the drs wealth is more important then everyones health.

I don't know any poor drs. And with socialsed medicine, the drs don't have to pay the insurance premiums.