Seminary girls have changed?

tomorrow ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:30 pm

I hope I've gotten this in the right place. We love to have guests and have had more girls than guys recently. They're mostly sweet girls from a variety of seminaries. I'm a little baffled by this year's trend of miniskirts and just-kinda-barely-make-it-to-the-knees-if-I-don't-move-too-much skirts. It's lesser so with the more Bais Yaakov type of crowd and I'm not up on the newer sems so much, so if I haven't heard of it, I don't know where they're coming from. I just want to know if this is normal? Where I live, if the kid isn't off the derech, this is pretty much not seen, though nobody would say anything, but I feel a little weird with it showing up in my house week after week. If a girl came a few times, I might say something, but with it being different girls all the time, I don't feel close enough to any of them to say anything. What would you do?

My oldest son is turning 12 next week and neither looks at nor talks to the girls, so much as I can tell. I'm sure he hasn't noticed.

cassandra ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:34 pm

Love your signature, btw. I'm not sure if you're talking about actual miniskirts or just skirts that fall on the knee itself, but if you are talking about the latter those are pretty common where I come from, especially among high school girls. (Halachically accepted too.) And it's only November so they haven't flipped out yet. I don't think it's your place to say something about the skirts, but if you don't want girls dressed like that in your home you definitely have a right to say no next time they want to come.

bubby

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:36 pm

Maybe contact the Sem & explain your concerns/questions? The trouble is, it sounds like a "feeling" of discomfort at the "just-just" clothing rather than an out-and-out disregard for Tznius. As for the norm...I don't know, it depends the circles you move in. Some MO girls who are wonderful girls may dress a little more relaxed.

You should be a little concerned for your DH & son. It might make DH feel a tad uncomfortable.

Ruchel ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:40 pm

Quote:

I'm a little baffled by this year's trend of miniskirts and just-kinda-barely-make-it-to-the-knees-if-I-don't-move-too-much skirts.

I hope you aren't calling this a mini skirt...
Actually even way above the knee, a mini skirt is a mini skirt. Not just a skirt that is not up to Orthodox standards.

Now, I think with the trend of sending more and more girls to sem, when let's say 8 or 10 years ago it was really ultra Orthodox only, of course the girls will be different.

If you are bothered, you can invite only certain girls who dress totally tznius, or stop inviting (sem) girls...

↑ tomorrow ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:42 pm

Some are the just-just, but a few have been a good six inches or more above the knee. My husband has noticed, but works in a mixed environment and says he really doesn't generally pay much attention anyhow. My son, well, he's still totally oblivious and if this is the style, I'm hoping it changes some over the next couple of years.

For sure, they're nice girls, though, no matter how they've been dressed.

↑ cassandra ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:44 pm

tomorrow wrote:

but a few have been a good six inches or more above the knee.

Most of the good, MO seminaries would not accept this. Either way I don't think there is much you can do about it except for not inviting them.

Fabulous

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:46 pm

STovah wrote:

I would contact the seminary. I think that over the past 5-6 years, girls (at least in Flatbush) have started wearing much tighter and shorter clothing.

Yes, but six inches seems a bit much to me. In Flatbush, you'll see on the knee, even one tops two inches above, but six is a lot

Tamiri

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:48 pm

6 inches above the knee does not sound like any kind of Orthodoxy I know, unless they are letting loose while their parents aren't around, and the seminary is very lenient?

baba

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 2:58 pm

Tamiri wrote:

6 inches above the knee does not sound like any kind of Orthodoxy I know, unless they are letting loose while their parents aren't around, and the seminary is very lenient?

Or they wouldnt wear it in sem either! I've seen the it with some of my friends (not talking bout sem girls), they wear leggings under it and suddenly think it doesnt matter that the skirt/dress is quite short.

Aidelmom ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 3:19 pm

ever heard the song, raisin "I'm flippin out"
and its reverse "I'm flippin in"
Dare I say I do not like the expression.
I think she means getting frummer.

anonymom

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 4:14 pm

If my oldest was a 12 year old boy, I would feel more comfortable mostly having bochrim over; all the more so if you are uncomfortable with the way they dress. It is a real problem. I mean teenagers are much more concerned about looking with it and in style. They just do not get what it does to the men and boys around them. (Being don lcaf zchus.) You dont want to wait till your son starts to notice. Protect him as much as you can and daven to Hashem to do the rest.

Maya

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 4:37 pm

Raisin wrote:

Cassandra, what happnes when they "flip out"? do they get more or less frum???

Doesn't she mean that as the weather gets colder, the girls start wearing longer skirts?

OldYoung ↓

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 6:09 pm

Maya wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Cassandra, what happnes when they "flip out"? do they get more or less frum???

Doesn't she mean that as the weather gets colder, the girls start wearing longer skirts?

Cooincidentally, girls flip out as the weather gets colder and yes, they may end up in longer skirts. (Unless they gain weight and are in denial.. in which case the skirts just get shorter no matter how much they've flipped out. Rolling Eyes

)

When I was in seminary, there were a number of girls in other seminaries wearing skirts above the knees with leggings underneath and uggs. Is that the look you're talking about? Or just a typical BY girl with a pleated or pencil skirt 6 inches above the knees? Btw, most of the BY seminaries in Israel have a pleated skirt rule, (and last I checked pleated skirts weren't really tight) so the teachers may have no idea how the girls are dressing on Shabbos. It may pay to bring it to the schools attention if the skirts are indeed so fitted and short!

↑ Raisin

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 7:13 pm

cassandra wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Cassandra, what happnes when they "flip out"? do they get more or less frum???

Much frummer.

thanks. I thought I understood american quite well, but clearly not. Wink

↑ cassandra

Mon, Nov 17 2008, 7:18 pm

In my community a lot of kids allow themselves youthful indiscretions in high school and then go to Israel and become very makpid on things they had never cared much about in the past (covering elbows, wearing stockings, etc.) It sticks for some, some go back to where they started, and some end up in the middle. (I've always been in the middle so I never really experienced that.)

shabri

Tue, Nov 18 2008, 1:10 am

I've worked it sems and you can totally mention it to the school. I'm not sure where you are getting the gils from (is the sem calling you and asking you to take them or are they friends kids/relatives from the US) but either way, you should mention it to the school. When I worked in sem, not BY but not MO, we did a session "how to be a good shabbos guest" Number 1 on the list was dress appropriately for the community/host even if it is above your personal standards

chavamom ↓

Tue, Nov 18 2008, 1:23 am

OK, back in the dark ages when I was in seminary, the NYC girls wore skirts that just covered their knees if they didn't move (no, it wasn't a BY type-seminary). I wore long skirts. They told me that while long skirts might be fine in the Midwest, it would never pass in NYC. So I don't think this is something "new".