Two year old on a diet???

Seraph

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 5:36 am

I'm outraged!
Yesterday, when all the kids sat down for their sandwiches, I couldn't find one girl's sandwich, so I ended up making her one, because why should she suffer and go hungry because her parents forgot to send food?
I sent a note home to the parents (a sister brings her and picks her up) asking them that their daughter didnt have aruchat eser today, and to please remember to send for her.
Today, her sister comes with a message: “My mother didnt forget to send her a sandwich; she purposely didnt send because my sister is on a diet because she is too fat. Please don't give her food either.”
A two year old? A diet? A little girl not being allowed to eat when she is hungry?
Can I mention that this little girl is nowhere even remotely close to fat. When she is dressed, she looks like a skinny string bean, but when undressed you can see she has a tiny little drop of tub on her thighs and belly, but thats about it! I know what fat kids look like; I have four fat kids I watch every day, and this girl comes nowhere near that!
And even if she was fat, its because Hashem wants her to be that way. Toddlers often are a little chubby, because that's part of the normal growth for a little kid, and within no time and no interventions, they will most likely slim down. A portly toddler is not because of terrible eating habits, but rather because that is their natural growth curve.

I ask the parents to send their kid with a sandwich (or two or three) to eat at 10, as well as a fruit to eat at noon. The kids are at me from 8 am till 1 pm. As it is, this mother was sending only a small, stale, whole wheat sandwich, after which the daughter was still hungry and I often had to supplement her lunch with things from my own pantry, and I provided her a fruit, because this little girl was soooo kvetchy and hungry until she was satiated, would cry and cry.
So now for the whole 5 hours, her mother sent her with one apple and asks that I not give anything else. Result: daughter will be VERY kvetchy and cranky because not only is she hungry, she will have nothing to eat while everyone else does. Her mother is basically somewhat starving her because she thinks she is fat. (Mother is quite skinny.) Methinks not only is this cruel and might even be reportable, but she is setting up her daughter for major eating disorders.
But the thing that gets me most upset is that she expects me to follow her mishegos and deal with an insanely miserable hungry kid. If a parent wants to put her kid on a starvation diet, she should keep her at home and not send her out and expect their childcare provider to starve the kid as well. Or at least, speak to me first and not just stop sending her with lunch and have me find out from the sister “Oh, she didnt send lunch because the kid is fat”.
This little girl has been coming every day for the past couple of days crying, and continuing to be very kvetchy all day long. Connected to this new diet, possibly? What do you think?

Yes, there is always the possibility that the sister passed on the wrong message or made up something... But how would she know to pass on such a message unless she knew what was in the note that I sent home? Which makes me think she was told to pass on this message.

What would you do in my shoes? Starve the kid and go along with mom's mishegos? Confront the mom and tell her that what she is doing is very wrong, or more politely ask her to explain what is going on (I'm not that good at that- I'd probably not go a good job of having such a conversation being non confrontational)? Or just give the kid food from my own cupboard? Report on them?

Have you ever put a 2 year old on such a strict diet for weightloss purposes? What do you think of doing so?

Raisin

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 5:52 am

I think the mother has some problems. I've never heard of a diet where meals are skipped. if she sent carrots and cottage cheese I would still think she is crazy, but at least the kid has something to eat.

greentiger

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 6:01 am

Oh my gosh! This poor kid!!

If its true and the mother really thinks she needs to worry about her 2 year old's figure, I would definitely report them. If she is starving her kid, then she must have deeper issues she needs to sort out and I doubt a casual conversation with her kid's ganenet would help her. And what about her other kids? Oish, please get her help. First call up the mother and mention that you are concerned that her kid isn't being fed enough. If she fights you then find a professional to speak to.

Mrs.K

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 6:08 am

I'm speechless. In my opinion, this borders on abuse.

Could it be she's too embarrassed to tell you she can't afford it, or that, like you said, the sister got the wrong message?

I don't think it's up to you to provide the lunch behind the parent's back, and I don't think it's right for you to let her starve either.

I think you need to meet with the mother or call her on the phone and tell her straight out that, if this is her decision, you want no part of it, and to please provide lunches. Explain that besides for the obvious reasons about how crazy this is to do to a child, you cannot take care of the other children when her child is kvetchy and miserable because she's starving. If she wants to starve her children, she may do it in her own home, but not to make you part of this twisted plan. Maybe point out that there is plenty of wholesome, healthy, lunches she can send along if she has a problem with sandwiches.

If you decide that this is something you want to report, be it to a rabbi or child services or elsewherea, then take it from there.

orchidmom

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 6:44 am

that is terrible!!!!!! poor child.

Ima'la

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 7:00 am

My immediate reaction, as Mrs. K suggested, was - is it possible that this is a cover-up for not being able to afford food?

You have to speak to her, but if you don't get anywhere with her, ask a responsible rav how to proceed.

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 7:17 am

Only extreme cases of "fat" toddlers need any special "dieting"....and most of the time, it's replacing extra carbs, sugars, fats, etc. with fruit, veggies, etc. instead not taking away meals.

I agree that you should try to find out what's happenning from the mother, and in a certain way, hope it's a financial thing bc I think that's a really sick thing to do otherwise.

Health is a Virture

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 7:37 am

the mother may deny if it is a money issue, so then I would recommend that you ask the mother if it's okay if the daughter seems to still be hungry if you give her a whole wheat sandwich with chumus, or something like that. Tell the mother that the daughter is still hungry, and is extremely kvetchy, is there anything that you can offer her (don't worry about the money) that the mother allows. If she says no, then you must, speak to the woman's rav and ask a shayla what you should do. I would think that you would be mechuyav to give the child a healthy meal. my only fear with just feeding the child is that that only takes care of that part of the day, what about the rest of the day and the future years! Good luck!

ChossidMom

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 7:56 am

Oy vey. I would talk the mother. If that wouldn't help I would talk to a rav and if necessary report this to the social services. I have NEVER heard of anything so outrageous in my life.

willow

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:44 am

sorry double post

Last edited by willow on Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total

willow

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:45 am

I think the daughter got the message mixed up. I think you should clarify with the parents before calling any services. If of course you find otherwise, this is a case of abuse and needs to be thought out, consult with a rav and proper services.

Seraph

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:52 am

Ok. If what the daughter said was correct, she said the mother specifically asked that I not give any more food than what she sends. So I doubt it would be a money thing.
So how do I go about finding out if daughter passed on the wrong message? Call up mom and said "Your daughter mentioned something about your other daughter's food intake. I wanted to speak to you about it because I wasnt sure I understood what she was saying" and take it from there?

My husband thought it was worth pointing out in this thread that this family is russian. Does that play a role in this? A cultural thing perhaps?

This family is also strict with their discipline. Connected to that as well?

red sea

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:53 am

Also do you know what this child eats at home for breakfast & lunch? Maybe the family eats a big meal in the morning @ 7:30 and another @ 1:30 and the mother feels that one snack between is enough? Not all families just give their child a drink in the morning and rely on aruchat eser as the real morning meal. Maybe the "diet" is just not letting her eat 3 big meals in a half a day.

Blair

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:57 am

This is a clear case of abuse and I would speck to the Rav about this and see if he thinks you should contact the asocial work in our community.

Mrs.K

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 8:58 am

Even if it IS cultural...you still have a responsibility to this child.

Red Sea, that's a good point. Find out what the child is getting a large breakfast and afternoon meal at home.

Seraph

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 9:07 am

red sea wrote:

That is a point. I know she doesnt eat lunch until very late, as she gets home 1:30 and crashes for a long nap. She probably doesnt eat before 3 pm, earliest. So even if she does eat a big breakfast at 7:30, a 2 year old needs to eat between the hours of 7:30 and 3, and more than just an apple. The fact that she eats her food and then asks for more means she is hungry, even if she ate 3.5 hours before that.
Also, putting a kid in a system where eating at 10 is the norm but not letting your kid eat then because you have a different eating schedule is cruel as well. watching other kids eat and not being allowed to eat is no fun, as you all on diets know very well.

ss321

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 9:12 am

WOW. That is quite a dilemna you have yourself there seraph.

Hmm. Im trying to picture myself in your shoes. If this were me, I would definitely confirm with the mom. Say exactly what you wrote - "your daughter mentioned something...wanted to speak to you abt it..." Be on the look out though, be very astute. there might be some sort of socio-economic issue at play. are they too POOR to afford to send food, but are too embarassed to admit that? If so, then yes, as a chessed, fed her out of your own cabinets....

You said they were russian...I dont know many russian people, but I do know, that in europe in general, they have different eating habits than in the US (more than that, I cant tell you). maybe she has a big breakfast of pancakes and cereal and oatmeal, and a feast of a dinner, and they dont want her eating too much in between, and the daughters use of the word "diet" was wrong - her food "schedule" is different?

But, if she stays tough about it and says, no, DD is too fat, this is what needs to be done....well, if it was me, my next step would be warning her how dangerous that is from a medical perspective. If she refused, and I tried every other route, I would probably have DH call our Rov and explain the situation, and then I would call social services....albeit reluctantly, as I do believe that such a person is putting her child's (my patient's?) life at risk. and I think (but again, I dont know these halachos - which is why I said I would ask first - the "exception" to the mesira rule is sakanas nefashos).

As for what YOU should do if the mother doesnt budge? I really, truly do not know. I dont think its "your place" to contact social services (from a halachic standpoint I mean...see, since Id be legally obligated in such a case, I think the psak would be different), but perhaps you can contact her pediatrician, and let him deal with it? In the meantime, I would continue feeding her despite the parents' wishes. It is not your place to torture and discipline their child. If a parent of a first grader says, we pull down our son's pants and patch him when he is chutzpahdik, and we would appreciate it if you do the same, would the teacher oblige? certainly not right?

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 9:32 am

I think there could be a halachic responsibility to report if in fact a child is being denied food. At worse, this is some level of starvation and at best it's emotional abuse. What kind of parent denies a child food like that?

Then, if you violate their directives, they can claim all kinds of things to you, etc. Also, it doesn't solve anything, the parents could still be abusive (if this is what it is). It just covers it up and enables them to continue...and what happens when the child isn't in your gan anymore? or is in school and has the discipline to just learn to "starve"... this has grown up with a messed up mental disorder potential sky high.
I have no idea what the solution is bc we don't know the facts enough yet, and there's more to reasonably spend a short time trying to find out.

I wondered: could the other child be taking the sibling's food and then saying "my parents said not to give her more than this" bc the parents actually have sent a proper peckele and wouldn't want more food than that?

HindaRochel

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 9:33 am

Do you have a scale that is basically accurate?

1. weigh and measure all the children as part of learning about health. My kids like this.
You will then be able to calculate her BMI.
2. Speak to the mother and or father in private. Ask them when and what the child eats for her other meals. Confirm they do not want the child to eat at that point. If they insist then you can show them the chart (we did this as part of our learning program.) Explain that even if the child was overweight she should be eating something at that point as she is otherwise cranky. If she is eating a lot at breakfast suggest that smaller meals may be helpful. If it is a matter of money, you can raise the issue, suggest helpful sources. People did use ot live on one or two meals a day, three squares aren't obligatory, but if she is cranky and not learning well she isn't getting enough food, or enough sleep or enough something.
3. I would probably call the community social worker just to have her check things out, even if she is responsive. She may give her food at the gan but cut it out elsewhere. It is possible the mother just doesn't have a good idea about proper nutrition.

e1234

Fri, Apr 24 2009, 9:33 am

if it's true - it's crazy and I would feed the kid myself (you probably could use tzedakah money for it)
but check that it's true -
my kids eat a big breakfast and as much as I beg my 6 year old and 4 year old will not bring a sandwich
Sometimes they will bring rice cakes and sometimes a piece of matza (but only one - they won't let me put in more)
Many times I think the gannenet probably thinks we are not feeding the kids properly - but what could I do?
I can't fight them and they eat a big breakfast anyway so they may not be so hungry.

In your case if the kid is really hungry - first speak to the mother and if not you need to feed the kid.
by the way I don't think there is such a thing as a fat 2 year old - my son was over the chart at 2 but now is very skinny (at 8)