Shaking hands with men

FraydaSue

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:22 am

Curious for your opinions. I meet a lot of secular people who attend seminars that I organise, and most times I am the first frum person they have ever met. Normally the man gives me his hand to shake. I try to busy my hands with holding files; bags; etc. but often it is very uncomfortable and I half-shake a hand without any enthusiasm. I know many people will disagree with this, but I need practical solutions. When I've told people that I don't shake hands they have been very "put off" by my attitude and wondered what they are doing at a seminar that I am leading.

Ruchel

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:25 am

Not really controversial, more like ask your own rav... I know shtark "black hat" rabbis who shake hands... and strict MO types who don't... (I do).

FraydaSue

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:27 am

Ruchel - it really is controversial because my Rav told me to say "sorry, I don't shake hands with me", but it just doesn't work. Although strangely, I'm less likely to worry about refusing a NJ's hand because they don't know any different and just accept it.

flowerpower

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:28 am

I have come across that issue a nice amount of times.

Once, a big important professer came to our work, the supervisers were so nervous that everything should work out and he should be impressed. Of course, he introduces himself to flowerpower first out of all people and puts out his hand. I nicely tell him we don't shake hands and he understood.

Atali

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:31 am

FraydaSue wrote:

I think you would do better explaining why you can't shake hand then giving a limp handshake. A limp handshake is a definite no-no.

That said, if your rav said no then you can't do it. What is the question?

someoneoutthere

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:41 am

A rule of etiquette- a man should not shake the hand of a woman unless she extends her hand first.
No one follows that these days in America, but that is the "rule". (There are whole bunch more, like not extending your hand when you're being introduced to someone, rather they extend their hand to you)

I also find that if I keep my hands clasped behind my back when greeting people, it's as good as having something in them. They are "unavailable". And then nod in acknowledgement of their greeting.

If none of that works, I tell them I don't shake hands with unrelated males. If they seem uneasy I might throw in (depending on the person and circumstance) "I was taught not to touch that which isn't mine". My father used to use that a lot and people were genuinely appeased.

FraydaSue

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:49 am

You girls are good! I especially like the one about not touching what's not mine. Perhaps I could use that - most of them are over 60 and if I have a huge smile on my face, it MAY work.

Atali

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 10:50 am

someoneoutthere wrote:

That sounds a bit weird to me.

I think it is better to just say, "I'm sorry but I can't shake hands with men for religious reasons"

Rochelly

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:15 am

I often have this problem... I work in a office with many frum men and women and some shake hands and some don't... (at meetings ect).. I never know what to do... Once when someone came to the office for a meeting I told him that I don't shake hands with men and he took it very well.. a few minutes later another frum women in our office shook his hand... he was really confused

gryp

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:15 am

Different things work for different people, I think. I feel more comfortable using your line, Atali, but sometimes if my husband is there too, I'll add in extremely cheerfully: "but you can shake my husband's hand instead."

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:27 am

Atali wrote:

I think it is better to just say, "I'm sorry but I can't shake hands with men for religious reasons"

This works for me, but I also do try to have my hands full, and for better or worse, I am the only frum person at work, so at least there's less confusion over the matter.

PinkFridge

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:47 am

Rabbi Reisman mentioned this one motzei Shabbos last year in an awesome navi shiur about galus and how battered we are, but that the battle is what counts, even if we don't always win. He brought up a few common shailos, like hand shaking, yarmulkes in the work place and how "the street" has paskened, I.e. people do what they gotta do, not always asking what they should do. It's a really great listen and I'm not doing it justice at all. If I can find the date I'll pass it on.

It is weird when I meet a new doctor and don't shake hands but who knows what comes next Confused

sky

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:49 am

I just say sorry I don't shake hands. I've found keeping my hands busy or behind my back doesn't work because they will stick out their hand and aren't sure when to put it pack. I just keep a really big smile on my face when saying it.
Once the guy said okay - and then gave me a hug.

someoneoutthere - I was once training to do some in-company auditing by an outside company and they also said it is inapproprate for a man to offer his hand to a women unless she offers hers first. But that is typically not done.

Jewish people are not the only culture out there that doesn't shake hands of the opposite gender. I've had people tell me where they have had similar situations with different nationalities.

I have had misunderstandings. At my current office I didn't realize the first 2 years the women also thought they couldn't touch me - until after I had my baby a lady in HR said she wished she could give me a hug and is sorry that she can't.

solo

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:53 am

Atali wrote:

That said, if your rav said no then you can't do it. What is the question?

easier said than done. ive been in quite few uncomfortable positions because of this.
and might have shook a hand or two embarrassed

skymile

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 11:54 am

When I told my banker that I don't shake hands we ended up having a two hour yiddishkeit discussion... anyway- did you know that the REAL xtians- the very religious ones are not allowed to have, kiss, or wear a tzeilem?! he told me that it's just like an idol because it's not the "god" itself, just a picture and a picture is the same as an idol... Just FYI

yentaof8

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 12:26 pm

My BIL had an incident when he didn't shake the hand of 1 of the directors of the Holocaust Museum - well, she was highly offended. She later called him and thanked him for sparing her an embaressing situation because when the Satmar Rebbe (I think) came to visit the museum, had she not learned from my BIL that frum men don't shake hands with women, she would've extended hers to the Rebbe and that would've been even more embaressing. So sticking to one's convictions can ultimately be the best option because you never know the rippling effect.

louche

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 12:30 pm

FraydaSue wrote:

Ruchel - it really is controversial because my Rav told me to say "sorry, I don't shake hands with me", .

I don't shake hands with me, either. Do you shake hands with you?

grin

Thu, Sep 10 2009, 12:35 pm

someoneoutthere wrote:

If none of that works, I tell them I don't shake hands with unrelated males. If they seem uneasy I might throw in (depending on the person and circumstance) "I was taught not to touch that which isn't mine". My father used to use that a lot and people were genuinely appeased.

I understood that was the Lubavicher Rebbe's answer in such situations.