I need help please?

momoffive

Sun, Sep 20 2009, 11:38 pm

The artscroll interlinear machzor is my machzor of choice. I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. Took me some time to figure it out, but whenever it says Ark is opened, you stand, when the ark is closed, you can generally sit. Also, there is no shame in finding a rebbetzin or co-davener and asking for some guidance. It makes the learning process much faster, and it is unlikely that anyone will think any less of you - I personally think it shows courage, and commitment to improve.

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 1:53 am

momoffive wrote:

thank you so much u made me feel much better and I will im'h ask for help when I get there.

louche

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 2:00 am

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

Can you explain this? I understand women with young children or disabled husbands not going to shul, but otherwise...? This is not a criticism, I'm just astonished by this statement and am wondering in what frum community girls don't go to shul. (Unless you yourself had a health condition that made shulgoing impossible.)

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 2:06 am

louche wrote:

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

some people like me who r embarassed to daven cause they dont know what their doing its easier to just stay home.

louche

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 2:25 am

amother wrote:

louche wrote:

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

some people like me who r embarassed to daven cause they dont know what their doing its easier to just stay home.

But you're not momoffive. If a person didn't grow up in a shulgoing household, how would she know what to do? But if a girl grew up in a frum home and went to BY, how could she have never gone to shul? That's what I'm asking. Even if her mom didn't go to shul b/c she was always sick/pregnant/nursing/taking care of small children/whatever, how does a frum girl manage never going to shul, not even on Yamim Noraim?

Furthermore, if a girl went to BY and paid any attention at all, then absent major learning disability on her part, she would have SOME grounding in davening. She might not understand every single word of the tefillah (who does?) or know by heart when to stand and when to sit (you can fake it by standing the whole time--people will think you're exceptionally pious), but she wouldn't be so lost that she'd dread going to shul because she's clueless about what's going on.

catonmylap

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 2:41 am

louche wrote:

amother wrote:

louche wrote:

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

some people like me who r embarassed to daven cause they dont know what their doing its easier to just stay home.

maybe she was always babysitting instead?

louche

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 3:11 am

Atali wrote:

I was assuming she meant that she didn't know how to follow the RH/YK davening, which is much more difficult than the regular davening.

So did I, but I still don't get how a frum girl got away with never going to shul. Especially on RH/YK. Even people who are almost totally removed from frumkeit make it their business to get to shul on YK, so how does a frum girl who goes to Beis Yaakov manage to never go to shul, at least on RH/YK? Unless as catonmylap suggested, her mother always forced her to babysit her younger siblings.

FraydaSue

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 3:14 am

I go to shul every Shabbos now that my kids are all older, and I see a very interesting thing. Very few girls go to Shul in Israel; they think that Shabbos is for a good shluf, not for davening. It's the same girls who go to shul every week and did so from a young age.

Come RH and YK, the Shul is overcrowded with girls who don't have seats (because out of necessity, the Shul only allots 2 chairs in the ezras nashim per family). I call them "twice a year Jews"; what about the other 50 weeks a year?

No one can even give the excuse of not understanding - they are Israeli and hebrew is their mother tongue. Even I, a "chutznik", after the first few times, manage perfectly with a hebrew siddur. RH and YK I like the Artscroll machzor as it gives full instructions.

louche

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 9:07 am

sgr wrote:

In our shul they constantly announce which page we are up to and when to stand and sit.

Mine, too. When we first joined I found it disconcerting, making the shul feel more like a Conservative than an Orthodox institution. Eventually I got used to the announcements of "please rise" "you may be seated" and "go now to Mussaf on page 291" and grew to appreciate them despite the fact that I still find them distracting. Announcing where we are is so much more user-friendly than the typical shul that assumes everyone is following and expects you to sink or swim. Even a person who is well-versed in shul procedure can go to the restroom or even space out for a bit and lose the place in the siddur. Why NOT make it easier for people?

Sometimes we can learn a thing or two from those Conservatives.

momoffive

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 10:54 am

Clarification: I wrote "I never went to shul". I should have written "I never went to shul on Shabbos." As to why, you can all speculate, or pm me. On Rosh haShana and Yom Kippur, we did go to shul, but davened in a very overcrowded shteibel and I was a young girl so was given a seat outside where I could not hear or see. Hebrew is not my first language, I did not understand the davening, I was bored out of my mind. Stood when everybody else did, sat when they did and memorized the stitching in the table cloth as I counted the pages and waited for the interminable to be over. Yes, we learned the tefillos in school, but kids need to see davening modeled too. Fast forward, I started going to shul when my youngest was 2, have been going almost every week since (he's turning 9). It took me quite some time to catch on to what you say when but it means a lot to me now. I am perfectly capable of using any siddur in the shul, but still prefer the Artscroll.

Mommy3.5

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 10:44 am

louche wrote:

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

Because our mothers always had small children and couldn't go to shul, and take us and teach us what to do. So we ended up married with little or no shul experience.

The shul my grandmother took me too for RH and YK, was a BT shul, and always announced when you needed to sit/stand. They also had all the teffilot numbered, and called out numbers as they went along. I never actually NEEDED to figure out what to do because the shul told me.

Then I married a sefardi, so anything I did know, was useless, as the davening was different. And a year after I got married, I started popping out my own young children, and could not go to shul due to a lack of an eruv.

I think your post is incredible condescending, and shows a total lack of understanding towards others.

LookingForward

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 11:26 am

louche wrote:

momoffive wrote:

I grew up in a frum home and in the BY school system but never went to shul. .

I'm a BY-type girl, grew up in a frum home, and my mother and her mother just didn't go to shul every week. The way I was taught, the women prepare the meal, make sure the table is set and have the house clean and ready for when the men come home. Of course we go to shul when we HAVE TO: Y"K, R"HS, and purim, for megilla.
Quite frankly, the women who do go to shul every shabbos seem to go for the social part of it. It's a fashion show, kiddush thing. I daven every week, always did, but in my QUIET house. No need to go to shul to communicate with The One Above. He listens from everywhere.
ps - I have no problem keeping up with the davening in my siddur/machzor. I don't believe that has anything to do with going to shul on a regular basis.