How would you explain yayin nesech to non jews?

Isramom8

Thu, Jun 10 2010, 8:05 am

In that situation I'd probably say that I wasn't feeling well enough to drink wine just then.

In general, I might explain that drinking alcohol together has led to intermarriage in the past and it was a big problem, because marrying in is important to us so that our religion can continue. But thank you so much guys, you're the best coworkers and so thoughtful! Very Happy

morah

Thu, Jun 10 2010, 10:18 am

Smilingmom- Shatnez would only puzzle, not offend, a non-Jew. Most non-Jews know that Jews don't (at least in theory) intermarry. Most understand why a frum person wouldn't intermarry- after all, it makes sense to marry someone with similar religious leanings/values- but not why it's still wrong even for someone who doesn't care one whit (r'l) about Judaism. Plenty of non-Jews accuse us of being "ethno-centric" for just that reason. Even tougher though, are things like yayin nesech and bishul akum (I'm leaving cholov yisrael out of this since, at the end of the day, even someone who eats only c'y can be lenient if necessary); you are basically saying that non-Jews have to keep away from our wine and our food. Even though WE know and understand why it's necessary, it seems that no matter how you slice it, it's going to sound like we think non-Jews are untrustworthy or impure. In situation where someone is a convert with non-Jewish family, you probably have no choice but to sensitively explain it- what's a convert to do when mom cooks something made out of kosher ingredients in a kosher pot, and no Jew was around to turn on the stove? How would said convert explain "Thanks mom, for going through the trouble of getting a new pot and kosher ingredients, but I still can't eat, because food cooked by a [gentile] is forbidden"? BTW- any converts who have had that situation- feel free to explain how you handled that.

Merrymom

Thu, Jun 10 2010, 2:23 pm

Raizle wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I wouldn't explain in an office situation, but I would explain to friends or family (and have).

I would tell them that wine is considered special and is used for religious things (offerings, kiddush, havdala), and as such it's kind of like tefillin or something similar. Consecrated might be the word in English, I'm not sure... and in order to keep that status, it's only handled by people committed to serving Hashem (that last point is controversial, since IIRC there are those that hold that non-frum Jews can touch non-mevushal wine).

I don't think it's a very tough concept, since most people are familiar with at least one religion, and most religions have things that only followers are allowed to do. For example, a Catholic church wouldn't want me handing out the communion wafers.

The reason we don't have yayin nesach I always understood to be because it used to be used for avoida zara so if a [gentile] who worshipped that avoida zara touched the wine, he could have it in mind which would make the wine something we can't use anymore.

There's alot more to it, and Morah's explanation might or might not work but it isn't accurate at all. It's better just to stay away from wine completely if non jews are going to be around so that you won't have to deal with this cv" later on if it turns out not to be mevushal. I don't think this board is the place to have a discussion regarding the reasons, we are on the internet you know, some Torah topics should remain off of here. Ask around and you'll find out what our Rabbonim say.

Mrs Bissli

Fri, Jun 11 2010, 8:28 am

The easiest reply would be gracefully duck out why you don't feel like drinking wine on that particular occasion.

Though would a similar situation happen at some point? Then it may make sense to explain that you have to be the one pouring the wine to keep the wine kosher. A kind of like, why flight attendents need to bring the hot kosher food doubly-wrapped. Admittedly, it's not really the exact explanation on yain nesach but probably less offensive and less complicated one. At least her colleagues were sensible enough to bring kosher wine. I usually have tough question explaining the difference between kosher and non-kosher wine (someone I worked with reassured me there's no pork-derivative in wine...)

morah, good to know about other wine buffs here. Agree there're some amazing non mevushal wine from Israel and France.