 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Toddlers
gold21
|
 Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:00 pm
|
op, why in the world would you refer to your child as stupid? no child is stupid. some are more advanced and some are more delayed, some are strong academically and some are strong in other areas... but really, you sound like an intense mother and I think you should just chill... and I would like to add that a person's intelligence often does not correlate to their success in life. you should daven that your child should have good mazal, because that is what is important. academic smarts often are not the determining factor... and never ever call a child stupid!... and by the way, she probably cant blow her nose by herself. that is YOUR job.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
 0
|
Merrymom
|
Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:41 pm
|
I didn't read all the replies but I'm almost wishing this is a phony post. OP, don't you know what 3 year olds are like? You have very high expectations for a child that is practically still a baby. True, some kids are advanced, my daughter knew every color by two and another one was reading fluently in P-1a but my other kids weren't like that at all. Your expectations are way too high.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
gold21
|
Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:53 pm
|
and I want to add that 3 year olds are definitely not expected to recognize letters of the ABC. thats an extremely bizarre expectation, OP. really. my 4 year old son doesnt recognize all the letters of the ABC's yet! and he is certainly not delayed, K"AH! he only knows the letters of his name and maybe a couple of others. he wasnt taught the ABCs yet anyhow, so obviously he doesnt know it, since he cant ESP the info out of my head and im not into obsessively advanced academics so im not teaching it. I wonder what gave the OP the impression that 3 year olds are supposed to recognize their ABCs and blow their own noses? odd.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
louche
|
Thu, Oct 21 2010, 7:14 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | I wonder what gave the OP the impression that 3 year olds are supposed to recognize their ABCs and blow their own noses? odd. |
Sesame Street.
Baby Einstein.
And all the the insane hyperambitious overachieving American moms who think that a. their child's early achievement of milestones means THEY, the moms, are smarter than most; b. early achievement of milestones means the child is smarter than most and will achieve more than most; c. by bombarding their child with information and "teaching moments" they will force the early achievement of milestones and create a hyperintelligent child.
You know, the HeadStart movement didn't create a generation of smarter kids. While kids in HeadStart did achieve more than non HeadStarters in the earliest years, their edge disappeared by about fourth grade. Beyond that the two groups were comparable. So what was achieved? Bragging rights for a couple of years. That's it.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
zipporah
|
Thu, Oct 21 2010, 8:26 pm
| amother wrote: | | zipporah wrote: | | saraleah2010 wrote: | LOL. To start, I just pushed the "post anonymously" button just to see what everyone is talking about. Wow, you are right! There is new language added to it. I'm not actually going to insult anyone, but I'm still going to post as myself.
To my actual thread comments, I agree that it's generally sad to see a mother proffer the lable "stupid" for her daughter. However, there are areas in the US, primarily the south, where culturally that is the word used when a child frustrates and/or annoys their parents. I lived in the deep south for a while and admit it was jarring to hear otherwise loving parents say to their kids, in exasperation, "Are you stupid?"
(or, to adjust for the twang, "Ah yah stoo-pid?")
This sentence was tossed out whenever the child did something that was "childlike" that was just too much for the parents to take (colored on the walls, spilled food on clothes, etc.) However, I saw these parents also make good moves, such as praising good behavior, hugs, affection, etc. Mixed messages? Bad parents? Or just a cultural difference?With respect to the actual post, I think that the OP was, ineloquently, asking whether we think her daughter should be tested. Clearly, the majority of us think not. I don't actually think her vocabulary necessarily reflects a passive dislike for her daughter.
In my own family experience, my sister has a son (now 6) with developmental delays and a lowered IQ due to prematurity and brief oxygen deprivation at birth. Believe me, she definitely gets fried and frustrated with him. Regardless that she has a lable and a reason for his behavior, she STILL has to live with it day in/day out and it grinds her down sometimes.
I think we could have a little more compassion for the OP... |
Thank you. |
Tzipporah- are you placing your bet on OP being from the South? |
I don't get it. I bring up a rule that is from the board management that pops up every time someone wants to post anonymously, and there's static. What is the deal with following a rule? Do the people complaining about amother guidelines read the pop-up? BTW, I post plenty in the controversial section where amother isn't an option, and there is still plenty of critique. You just have to be willing to stand behind what you're saying in your own "fake" name (in a completely fake environment, where few people know and fewer care who you are).
And regarding OP, I learned something called dan le-kaf zechut. Here is a summary:
[url] http://www.vbm-torah.org/roshandyk/meir.htm [/url]
I. The Benefit of the Doubt
A fundamental character trait mandated in Judaism is always judging one's fellow man favorably - being "dan le-kaf zechut". According to many commentators, this is explicitly commanded in the Torah: "Judge your fellow righteously" (b'tzedek tishpot amitecha - Vayikra 19:15). It is also mentioned in Pirkei Avot (1:6): "Tilt the scales of judgment in every man's favor" (heve dan kol adam le-kaf zechut).
The obvious reason for this imperative is that if everybody were constantly suspicious of his neighbor's conduct, it would be simply impossible for society to exist. Everybody would be worrying more about how his actions will be interpreted, than about the appropriateness of the actions themselves. Enmity would be rife.
Practically, the main reason for judging meritoriously is the irreconcilable element of uncertainty. One cannot possibly know all the circumstances that motivated someone to act in a certain way, so it is appropriate to give him the benefit of the doubt. This explanation is supported by the halacha which permits judging unfavorably in cases where a positive judgment is most unlikely (see Chafetz Chayim 3:7).
II. If Not An Acquittal - At Least a Light Sentence
Our sages also talked about a step beyond "dan le-kaf zechut" called "sanegoria". We are bidden to plead the case even of someone who has clearly acted improperly. This is an active form of favorable judgment. We are to act as the "sanegor", the defense attorney, for the transgressor - commissioned to think up every possible claim, however farfetched, which could conceivably get our client "off the hook". This is described by Rav Moshe Chaim Luzatto in Mesillat Yesharim when he talks about the saint's responsibility to "defend" the actions of his generation before the Most High (end of chapter 19).
One reason for such pleading is to seek a merciful sentence from the Almighty Judge. This resembles Avraham's pleading on behalf of the residents of Sodom.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Thu, Oct 21 2010, 11:18 pm
| zipporah wrote: | | amother wrote: | | zipporah wrote: | | saraleah2010 wrote: | LOL. To start, I just pushed the "post anonymously" button just to see what everyone is talking about. Wow, you are right! There is new language added to it. I'm not actually going to insult anyone, but I'm still going to post as myself.
To my actual thread comments, I agree that it's generally sad to see a mother proffer the lable "stupid" for her daughter. However, there are areas in the US, primarily the south, where culturally that is the word used when a child frustrates and/or annoys their parents. I lived in the deep south for a while and admit it was jarring to hear otherwise loving parents say to their kids, in exasperation, "Are you stupid?"
(or, to adjust for the twang, "Ah yah stoo-pid?")
This sentence was tossed out whenever the child did something that was "childlike" that was just too much for the parents to take (colored on the walls, spilled food on clothes, etc.) However, I saw these parents also make good moves, such as praising good behavior, hugs, affection, etc. Mixed messages? Bad parents? Or just a cultural difference?With respect to the actual post, I think that the OP was, ineloquently, asking whether we think her daughter should be tested. Clearly, the majority of us think not. I don't actually think her vocabulary necessarily reflects a passive dislike for her daughter.
In my own family experience, my sister has a son (now 6) with developmental delays and a lowered IQ due to prematurity and brief oxygen deprivation at birth. Believe me, she definitely gets fried and frustrated with him. Regardless that she has a lable and a reason for his behavior, she STILL has to live with it day in/day out and it grinds her down sometimes.
I think we could have a little more compassion for the OP... |
Thank you. |
Tzipporah- are you placing your bet on OP being from the South? |
I don't get it. I bring up a rule that is from the board management that pops up every time someone wants to post anonymously, and there's static. What is the deal with following a rule? Do the people complaining about amother guidelines read the pop-up? BTW, I post plenty in the controversial section where amother isn't an option, and there is still plenty of critique. You just have to be willing to stand behind what you're saying in your own "fake" name (in a completely fake environment, where few people know and fewer care who you are).
And regarding OP, I learned something called dan le-kaf zechut. Here is a summary:
[url] http://www.vbm-torah.org/roshandyk/meir.htm [/url]
I. The Benefit of the Doubt
A fundamental character trait mandated in Judaism is always judging one's fellow man favorably - being "dan le-kaf zechut". According to many commentators, this is explicitly commanded in the Torah: "Judge your fellow righteously" (b'tzedek tishpot amitecha - Vayikra 19:15). It is also mentioned in Pirkei Avot (1:6): "Tilt the scales of judgment in every man's favor" (heve dan kol adam le-kaf zechut).
The obvious reason for this imperative is that if everybody were constantly suspicious of his neighbor's conduct, it would be simply impossible for society to exist. Everybody would be worrying more about how his actions will be interpreted, than about the appropriateness of the actions themselves. Enmity would be rife.
Practically, the main reason for judging meritoriously is the irreconcilable element of uncertainty. One cannot possibly know all the circumstances that motivated someone to act in a certain way, so it is appropriate to give him the benefit of the doubt. This explanation is supported by the halacha which permits judging unfavorably in cases where a positive judgment is most unlikely (see Chafetz Chayim 3:7).
II. If Not An Acquittal - At Least a Light Sentence
Our sages also talked about a step beyond "dan le-kaf zechut" called "sanegoria". We are bidden to plead the case even of someone who has clearly acted improperly. This is an active form of favorable judgment. We are to act as the "sanegor", the defense attorney, for the transgressor - commissioned to think up every possible claim, however farfetched, which could conceivably get our client "off the hook". This is described by Rav Moshe Chaim Luzatto in Mesillat Yesharim when he talks about the saint's responsibility to "defend" the actions of his generation before the Most High (end of chapter 19).
One reason for such pleading is to seek a merciful sentence from the Almighty Judge. This resembles Avraham's pleading on behalf of the residents of Sodom. |
Yes Tzipporah, you are certainly right. OP should be way more dan lkaf zechut on her DD.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
zipporah
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 12:43 am
| amother wrote: | | zipporah wrote: | | amother wrote: | | zipporah wrote: | | saraleah2010 wrote: | LOL. To start, I just pushed the "post anonymously" button just to see what everyone is talking about. Wow, you are right! There is new language added to it. I'm not actually going to insult anyone, but I'm still going to post as myself.
To my actual thread comments, I agree that it's generally sad to see a mother proffer the lable "stupid" for her daughter. However, there are areas in the US, primarily the south, where culturally that is the word used when a child frustrates and/or annoys their parents. I lived in the deep south for a while and admit it was jarring to hear otherwise loving parents say to their kids, in exasperation, "Are you stupid?"
(or, to adjust for the twang, "Ah yah stoo-pid?")
This sentence was tossed out whenever the child did something that was "childlike" that was just too much for the parents to take (colored on the walls, spilled food on clothes, etc.) However, I saw these parents also make good moves, such as praising good behavior, hugs, affection, etc. Mixed messages? Bad parents? Or just a cultural difference?With respect to the actual post, I think that the OP was, ineloquently, asking whether we think her daughter should be tested. Clearly, the majority of us think not. I don't actually think her vocabulary necessarily reflects a passive dislike for her daughter.
In my own family experience, my sister has a son (now 6) with developmental delays and a lowered IQ due to prematurity and brief oxygen deprivation at birth. Believe me, she definitely gets fried and frustrated with him. Regardless that she has a lable and a reason for his behavior, she STILL has to live with it day in/day out and it grinds her down sometimes.
I think we could have a little more compassion for the OP... |
Thank you. |
Tzipporah- are you placing your bet on OP being from the South? |
I don't get it. I bring up a rule that is from the board management that pops up every time someone wants to post anonymously, and there's static. What is the deal with following a rule? Do the people complaining about amother guidelines read the pop-up? BTW, I post plenty in the controversial section where amother isn't an option, and there is still plenty of critique. You just have to be willing to stand behind what you're saying in your own "fake" name (in a completely fake environment, where few people know and fewer care who you are).
And regarding OP, I learned something called dan le-kaf zechut. Here is a summary:
[url] http://www.vbm-torah.org/roshandyk/meir.htm [/url]
I. The Benefit of the Doubt
A fundamental character trait mandated in Judaism is always judging one's fellow man favorably - being "dan le-kaf zechut". According to many commentators, this is explicitly commanded in the Torah: "Judge your fellow righteously" (b'tzedek tishpot amitecha - Vayikra 19:15). It is also mentioned in Pirkei Avot (1:6): "Tilt the scales of judgment in every man's favor" (heve dan kol adam le-kaf zechut).
The obvious reason for this imperative is that if everybody were constantly suspicious of his neighbor's conduct, it would be simply impossible for society to exist. Everybody would be worrying more about how his actions will be interpreted, than about the appropriateness of the actions themselves. Enmity would be rife.
Practically, the main reason for judging meritoriously is the irreconcilable element of uncertainty. One cannot possibly know all the circumstances that motivated someone to act in a certain way, so it is appropriate to give him the benefit of the doubt. This explanation is supported by the halacha which permits judging unfavorably in cases where a positive judgment is most unlikely (see Chafetz Chayim 3:7).
II. If Not An Acquittal - At Least a Light Sentence
Our sages also talked about a step beyond "dan le-kaf zechut" called "sanegoria". We are bidden to plead the case even of someone who has clearly acted improperly. This is an active form of favorable judgment. We are to act as the "sanegor", the defense attorney, for the transgressor - commissioned to think up every possible claim, however farfetched, which could conceivably get our client "off the hook". This is described by Rav Moshe Chaim Luzatto in Mesillat Yesharim when he talks about the saint's responsibility to "defend" the actions of his generation before the Most High (end of chapter 19).
One reason for such pleading is to seek a merciful sentence from the Almighty Judge. This resembles Avraham's pleading on behalf of the residents of Sodom. |
Yes Tzipporah, you are certainly right. OP should be way more dan lkaf zechut on her DD. |
Which is what many of us are trying to impart in a pleasant way, for example: Your daughter is being age appropriate... or maybe she needs more hands on training... or even, maybe she is developmentally delayed. Not "that's disgusting!" Wow. Maybe I've been in Customer Service too long. Do most people get so confrontational when someone does something inappropriate? Embarrassing people isn't against halacha anymore either?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
Brown
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 1:19 am
|
Your daughter may be a totally regular 3 yr old or a bright kid with a learning issue. I have a bli ayan hara beautiful, bright (very), talented daughter with some language, add difficulties. Some of the stuff you mentioned remind me of her. Going to a speech therapist or first of all a pediatrition to check for wax in her ears and a hearing test couldn't hurt. Our pediatrition actually said she is so bright she's using her slight disabilities to twist us all around her little finger. But go figure out when she really understood and when not. Lots of nachas and enjoy her talents and strengths, all kids have their share.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
Raisin
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 3:02 am
just to make you feel good I also thought there must be something wrong with my kids. they did not speak properly till much later then most of the other toddlers of my aquaintance. in fact, they did not really speak well until kindergarten. I sent one of my kids for speech therapy I was so worried.
Now they are all bright articulate children at the top of their classes. My 11 year old has a reading age of 15. So just becasue a kid is behind at 3 years old does not mean she will be behind at 5 or 6 or 10 or 15.
And definately have her checked up for wax or speech therapy. there is a good chance she doesn't need it but it can't hurt.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 5:03 am
Regarding the whole parents in the south calling their kids stupid and it's ok there thing, ummmmm, NO!
When my siblings and I were younger my father sued to say things like that when he was upset at us but otherwise was the absolute best father. It really really hurt all of us and until today we still talk about how much we hated it.
It doesn't matter if it's done in the south or not, it's completely wrong and could really hurt your child.
Regarding the OP, you still didn't answer whether or not you or someone else teaches you DD these things or if you just expect her to know it. Also, I don't think you can expect a 3 year old to just wake up and let you sleep. She probably comes to you to blow her nose because she wants you to get up.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
Merrymom
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 7:22 am
|
Not on topic really but instead of quoting and re-quoting long, long posts can you just copy and paste the parts you are alluding to and then bold it so everyone will know it's not part of your post?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 7:55 am
| amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | I can't help but wonder if my 3 yo dd is stupid. I know it sounds mean, but she doesn't know her ABC's yet (she can sing them but can't recognize anything that isn't an "N" or "T" b/c that's the first letter in her name and her sister's name), and doesn't recognize numbers yet. this morning when I asked her which sippy cup of milk was hers she said" the blue one" (she was in the playroom and I was in the kitchen) but there was no blue one, one was pink and one was yellow ( 1 for her and 1 for her sister). I told her that there is no blue. so when she came to the kitchen, she looked at the cups and said the pink one. usually the pink one is for her sister so I asked her older sister and she said that the pink one was hers, not my 3 yo's. why would she just make that up? she wasn't saying it like she was playing around. she was serious. also, I tell her things one day and she forgets the next day. things that I tell her every day, like before she goes to bed I always tell her not to wake me up in the morning to blow her nose, she can do it herself. over and over I tell her, but yet she says that she didn't know that when I tell her in the morning when she woke me up to blow her nose. is this typical of a 3 yo? is she just mentally a little behind? the thing is that she's smart in other ways.she does this in other ways as well and it drives me NUTS!! |
I am biting my tongue here, and I think you've gotten to much sympathy from posters on here considering how aweful you sound asking if your DD is "stupid" and titling your post with that word.
I wont even discuss whether DD is on track because that is so not the problem.
I think whatever concerns you have about her intellegence and acting inappropriately, you need to turn around and ask about YOURSELF.
Dont you ever use the word stupid to describe a toddler, and even more so, when later in the same post you wonder if she is mentally behind. What planet do you come from that you could call a mentally slow child, or any child, stupid, for being behind in learning?
I am utterly disgusted. I hope your DD has some reliable adults to look after her well being. |
my child who is older than that has difficulty blowing his nose and I would not think of labeling him something like that. you teach them with patience and give them the positive reinforcement 'wow, you're doing great, you're doing a little bit better, you can do it by yourself like a taty', etc.
newsflash: children wake their parents. smart ones, geniuses, etc. if the child is waking you at 5:00am and you are not sure how to get her to go back asleep or how to make sure she does not wake you or anyone else in the house, you request parenting guidance.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Fri, Oct 22 2010, 7:55 am
| amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | I can't help but wonder if my 3 yo dd is stupid. I know it sounds mean, but she doesn't know her ABC's yet (she can sing them but can't recognize anything that isn't an "N" or "T" b/c that's the first letter in her name and her sister's name), and doesn't recognize numbers yet. this morning when I asked her which sippy cup of milk was hers she said" the blue one" (she was in the playroom and I was in the kitchen) but there was no blue one, one was pink and one was yellow ( 1 for her and 1 for her sister). I told her that there is no blue. so when she came to the kitchen, she looked at the cups and said the pink one. usually the pink one is for her sister so I asked her older sister and she said that the pink one was hers, not my 3 yo's. why would she just make that up? she wasn't saying it like she was playing around. she was serious. also, I tell her things one day and she forgets the next day. things that I tell her every day, like before she goes to bed I always tell her not to wake me up in the morning to blow her nose, she can do it herself. over and over I tell her, but yet she says that she didn't know that when I tell her in the morning when she woke me up to blow her nose. is this typical of a 3 yo? is she just mentally a little behind? the thing is that she's smart in other ways.she does this in other ways as well and it drives me NUTS!! |
I am biting my tongue here, and I think you've gotten to much sympathy from posters on here considering how aweful you sound asking if your DD is "stupid" and titling your post with that word.
I wont even discuss whether DD is on track because that is so not the problem.
I think whatever concerns you have about her intellegence and acting inappropriately, you need to turn around and ask about YOURSELF.
Dont you ever use the word stupid to describe a toddler, and even more so, when later in the same post you wonder if she is mentally behind. What planet do you come from that you could call a mentally slow child, or any child, stupid, for being behind in learning?
I am utterly disgusted. I hope your DD has some reliable adults to look after her well being. |
my child who is older than that has difficulty blowing his nose and I would not think of labeling him something like that. you teach them with patience and give them the positive reinforcement 'wow, you're doing great, you're doing a little bit better, you can do it by yourself like a taty', etc.
newsflash: children wake their parents. smart ones, geniuses, etc. if the child is waking you at 5:00am and you are not sure how to get her to go back asleep or how to make sure she does not wake you or anyone else in the house, you can request parenting guidance.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
8)
for a good cause .