Urgent tehillim now for the Jews of the Carmel region in EY

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Forum -> Announcements & Mazel Tovs -> Tehillim Needed

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octopus

Thu, Dec 02 2010, 6:33 pm

thank you for posting tehillim.

anon

Thu, Dec 02 2010, 7:58 pm

What an absolute nightmare. I feel like I'm in shock. Thank you for posting tehillim. This is such a nightmare. So many people burned alive, wounded with burns...loss of homes, communities. It's too much to bear Crying

mamochka

Thu, Dec 02 2010, 8:37 pm

such a pain, such a tragedy.

does it have any meaning to be tried with fire on the holiday of light?

Peanut2

Thu, Dec 02 2010, 9:23 pm

There are pictures of the bus that carried the 40, completely burned.
A kibbutz nearby was evacuated and residents watched from afar as their homes were burnt to the ground.

They really aren't getting in control of the fire, and the hope right now is that tomorrow during the day they will get it under control. With this in mind, it's still way too early to figure out the cause.

On a personal note: I know evacuees have, family in the north that are still allowed to stay in their home, and a cousin's girlfriend is one of the people who lost their home (her parents, she still lives there.)

Thank you for the tehillim! And to all the people willing to host!

Isramom8

Fri, Dec 03 2010, 5:34 am

None of the phone numbers I tried worked, till I called my city's moked number, which had an automated message addressing callers who want to host evacuated people. They put me on a list and said they would contact me if necessary once they had things more organized. Mi keamcha Yisrael! So many people always run to help. You have to merit helping. We didn't get any takers during the Second Lebanin War. There were more offers of help than takers!

HindaRochel

Fri, Dec 03 2010, 5:46 am

I've been keeping them in my prayers...Thank you for posting the Tehillim to say, and the link to the Tehillim hotline.

So many tragedies now...Not only this fire but friends, family...R"L...

sequoia

Fri, Dec 03 2010, 8:38 am

A lot of countries are sending planes and personnel -- Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Jordan, Russia, Azerbaijan... the unlikeliest of places.

wispalover

Fri, Dec 03 2010, 10:22 am

sequoia wrote:

A lot of countries are sending planes and personnel -- Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Jordan, Russia, Azerbaijan... the unlikeliest of places.

I know! Eygpt also offered assistance as did Bulgaria who sent the first plane. Mayor Bloomberg has sent a plane of firefighting chemicals from NY while waiting for the federal US to get together an aid assistance plane.

shalhevet

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 1:13 pm

Might have been even nicer if all these nice countries had sent aid quickly instead of hanging around for a couple of days while the fire raged.

חסד לאומים חטאת

sarahd

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 2:31 pm

shalhevet, some of these countries (I.e. Greece and Cyprus) had assistance on the way within an hour of Netanyahu requesting it. Other countries weren't asked to help till the next day and their assistance is already in Israel. Why the jaundiced view?

cubbie

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:05 pm

Shalhevet the help couldn't have been any earlier - we didn't realize how serious the situation was until it was too late on Thursday - most of the planes can't do their work once it's dark, so they anyway had to wait until Friday morning, by which time the first of the planes were here to help.
The biggest planes (from Russia I think) which were only called upon this evening, when after thinking things were coming to the end, the fires started to grow again, can work in the dark and will start in a few hours (according to the news here)
Also don't forget that Netanyahu has to request the help as the help costs us dearly, no country is going to pay the costs for us, every country that helps us, sends an invoice at the end of it.

Zus

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:10 pm

Will they seriously all charge us?
Did we charge all those countries after the tsunami? Did we charge Haiti?

cubbie

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:22 pm

1) of course
2) probably

shalhevet

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:27 pm

That's not true - Netanyahu asked on Thursday afternoon. I think maybe one country sent help on Friday morning. Most only came today.

Wow, I really didn't know they charge each other. Seriously, Haiti paid Israel for its help?

cubbie

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:46 pm

Netanyahu asked Thursday afternoon by 5pm it was too late to take action.
Friday morning the planes started to work, by Friday afternoon we thought that everything was under control, by Friday evening the situation was out of hand again, again, too late to take action.
Netanyahu arranged for more help, to start this morning, by this afternoon everything was again thought to be under control, just a few hours ago (once already dark) things were out of hand again, now the bigest planes from Russia that can work at night are on their way.
Question - why, if we don't have financial implications - weren't the biggest planes that can work in the dark and hold the most tonnes of seawater to spray ordered by Netanyahu from day one?

I'm sure there are situations were countries donate their help, especially when dealing with third world countries who can't afford to feed their citizens, but when the country has money and needs help, of course they charge each other. That's how they make money, no country is going to pay another country's costs when they don't have to, think about it, why does the Cyprus taxpayer need to pay for our houses, when he can't afford his own home?

cubbie

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 3:55 pm

Here's a good example - the trapped minors in Chile
Do you think NASA invested the money for researching and building (including all the trial runs until they got the perfect unit) then drilling down to the mine, trying out until they were happy with the result, their capsule, then taking the responsibility on their shouldiers to save the minors as a gift????
Or did NASA approach the Chilean officials and say we believe we can invent something to save your minors, it will cost approx X to research, Y to build and Z to utilize and the Chilean government say "Just create it, we will pay whatever it costs to save our minors".

shalhevet

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 4:22 pm

Really, on Friday afternoon and this afternoon they thought everything was under control? That's not the impression I got from the news (not pretending to be an expert here).

I might have it all wrong, but I didn't get the impression that one country "orders" anything. It's like a goodwill gesture - you're in trouble, so we'll help as a humanitarian effort. The other country has to offer - that's what I was asking - why didn't they offer from Thursday afternoon when Israel admitted they couldn't gain control of the fire?

I find it hard to believe the Chilean government paid anything to NASA. It's all about PR and being the big, responsible brother who saves the world (in America's case) or humanitarian (in Israel's case in Haiti). Don't you remember there were appeals to help those in Haiti? The money wasn't being donated to the Haitian government to pay for it's helpers, but to the rescue organizations.

I really never thought of it that way - maybe you're right, but I'd be surprised.

cubbie

Sat, Dec 04 2010, 4:47 pm

Yesterday, fire crews were on their way home (to other cities) and the called back again.
Today many evacated areas had been sent home, some of which have now been re-evacuated.

We have tv, so I think we see a different picture, we switched on after shabbat and everything was quiet and the fire very much coming to an end, the firefighters were able to sit down take a rest. A couple of hours later the flames were in full force again.

As for humanitarian aid, yes the humanitarian aid organisations rely mainly on donations, as govenment imput is no way near enough - why not? Every government has a budget amongst that budget is humanitarian costs, how do they stick to that budget, when a country that can afford help needs it, they pay so that the countries that can't afford get the help. What happens after a disaster, like an earthquake is that the country has had to spend so much money on dealing with the here and now of the disaster, (importing help, temprorary housing - food and clothing are usually donated) that there is very little left to help the families rebuild their lives, those without insurance are reliant on the ongoing monies raised around the world, to get a roof over their heads again.

We are considered a country that can afford the help, and we are nobody's friend, we pay, they provide.

A country is a business, do you know how much money Israel made after 9-11???? Let's just say that many of the this countries expertise were employed to train our "big brother" for their war with the enemy, that includes airforce, intellegence and much more. Again none of this was for free, America needed help, we had the means, they paid, that's just the way it works.

sarahd

Sun, Dec 05 2010, 6:23 am

Shalhevet, if you're angry at anyone it should be the Israeli government, which neglected its firefighting department so that it is now the worst in the developed world. How can it be that a country that has at least one wildfire a year has no fire-fighting aircraft??

As for other countries offering assistance, this wasn't a major disaster like an earthquake where everyone immediately realizes that outside assistance is necessary. It needed to be requested.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 05 2010, 6:34 am

sarahd wrote:

There are firefighting aircraft, they just aren't big enough to deal with a fire of this scale. This was the worst fire in several decades IIRC.

Not that the government shouldn't have dealt with it much earlier, and it's true that the fire department has had a woefully tiny equipment budget for years. But Israel is equipped to deal with "normal" wildfires (which happen much much more often than once a year), just not for mega-fires (and now of course we'll learn to be ready for mega-fires, and remain unprepared for the earthquake that geologists keep predicting around here - c'est la vie).

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