Are you hesitant about single men sleeping over?

QUEENY

Mon, Feb 13 2012, 7:23 pm

There was one occasion...where a single guy asked to come over on Shabbos. The reason I said no was bc when I was on the phone with him... several times he asked to speak to my 5 yr old dd. I also have two ds and he never asked about them. SO yeah... he kinda gives me the willies!

amother

Mon, Feb 13 2012, 7:51 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. I guess I wrote single because the assumption is that a married man with his wife there isn't as likely to try something. But you're right about married men.

Uh, my niece was molested by her grandfather (my BIL's father), who is a married man. And some of the occurrences happened when the wife was around. He just led my niece away from everyone in a different part of the house.

black sheep

Mon, Feb 13 2012, 7:55 pm

this really isn't a one way or the other question. everyone should always be careful about their children's safety, including never allowing strangers unsupervised access to your children. everyone should also teach their children safety rules, to report to you anytime anyone touches them or makes them feel uncomfortable, anytime anyone tells them to keep something a secret. on the other hand, this doesn't mean distrusting all men. and as one poster pointed out, this can't work anyway, because sometimes the molester is the child's own father (yikes!) of course everyone is thinking, okay, but not my dh/father. well, I will tell you this, the molester is someone whom you trust, be it your brother, BIL, son's teenage friend, rebbe, etc. the only way to protect your children is to give them the tools and knowledge and confidence to protect themselves. and maybe don't allow strangers to sleep in the next room over from them, while you are on another floor....

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 1:41 am

lilacdreams wrote:

we don't have sleep over guests which is just aswell, because so far we have unwittingly invited a murderer and a rapist/pediophile. Both are now TG in jail. We had no idea at the time - they were quite lovely guests.....

lilacdreams, unfortunately those things happen. My parents also had a lovely single father over for many years with his young children. In the end, he stopped coming and also committed murder, but there was no way to know that he was going to do that. In my mind, you cant not invite someone in to your home if you have no idea or inkling that they will do something like that.
The man that I am talking about, we heard it on the radio one day and that was the end of him coming around (it also hurt that the people that he killed were his own children) but we had no way of knowing any of this when he had been coming to our home.

amother

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 11:13 am

spring13 wrote:

I don't have people sleep over that I don't know, or who are not known personally by the one who asked me to have them. Being petrified of EVERY SINGLE MAN WHO IS NOT YOUR HSUBAND sounds unhealthy to me.

There's being stupidly trusting, and there's being stupidly untrusting. Instead of assuming that everyone is evil or everyone is perfect, use some seichel and make decisions about who does or does not sleep in your home. Oh, and teach your kids about what is or is not ok for people to say/do to them while you're at it.

There is no such thing as seichel in this case. You don't know if someone is a pedophile by looking at him.

amother

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 12:42 pm

Take precautions but don't be paranoid.
From this thread alone you see that loving, trusted family members can also be molesters.
I have older kids, boys & girls, who have had friends sleep over. I never really thought about it, but I guess my kid would wake up if friend was missing, Then again how do you ever know if it's not your kid molesting your little one (Hush).
I have a child who is a Yachad member. He goes on shabbatons & sleeps in the same room as an adviser. Luckily that child can't keep a secret so I guess its ok. And I have to trust someone .

sky

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 12:47 pm

I have all guests sleep on a different floor (I'm lucky enough to have this option and would hate to share a bathroom with a guest, strange or known).

We don't have single boys sleep over all that often because dh gets up very early and leaves the house and its a yichud problem if both of us are sleeping and its too early in the morning for people to be awake and have the front door open. Even 2 single guys are a problem when sleeping. So we either have more then 2 single guys, lock the basement door, or tell them they have to up and out with dh - which most don't want.

Personally I'm not sure I'd want a stranger sleeping in the room next door to my kids, male or female or a couple. for many reasons.

imasinger

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 3:21 pm

Usually, we have single guests sleep on a different floor. But one time, that wasn't possible, and we had a single guest in our playroom for Shabbos. The kids giggled for years because his snoring could be heard on the whole floor!

B"H, we have never had an issue with any of our guests. My heart goes out to all those who have suffered from anyone, stranger or friend or relative. You should never know from such pain again.

Barbara

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 3:22 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Well, I won't have a male babysitter. I know that's not fair, but better safe.

Well, in that case, will you leave your other kids alone with your sons? If all males are presumed to be molesters, then your sons must be presumed to be child molesters as well. Your husband too, for that matter.

Also, note that 60% of males who report having been molested were molested by women; and something like 25% of abusers in all are women.

mama-star

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 4:33 pm

Quote:

source?

Isramom8

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 4:43 pm

Barbara wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Well, I won't have a male babysitter. I know that's not fair, but better safe.

I'm going with the advice of Jerusalem's Religious Women's Crisis Center. They also say that a very small percentage of s-xual abuse is done by women. if a child has to ask for help on the street, he or she should ask a woman.

Ruchel

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 5:39 pm

Yes, most are men. Not all. In some of the horriblest stories a woman at least participated.

Once upon a time you told your kids if you hitch hike (a no no btw!! imho) go for a couple or even better, a family. Today even a family and certainly a couple can be unsafe... there are many stories Sad

granolamom

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 6:44 pm

Ruchel wrote:

granolamom wrote:

amother wrote:

OP here. I guess I wrote single because the assumption is that a married man with his wife there isn't as likely to try something. But you're right about married men.

while I know that not all single guys are evil and some married guys are, even halacha differentiates the two when it comes to hilchos yichud.

Like what?

well, I honestly dont remember exact wording or sources, but iirc, but a married person whose spouse is 'in the city' can be alone with person of opposite gender while that isnt the case if he is unmarried or if the spouse is known to be far away.

now, I'm not saying that this means no married people do things wrong or that all singles do, but there apparently is some sort of psychological inhibition if your spouse is nearby. for normal ppl I mean. forget molesters for a moment...suppose a really cute and outgoing bachur stays overnight and your really cute 16yo dd takes a fancy to him, I dont even want them playing chess once I go to sleep. call me crazy if you will.
anyway, my personal policy stems from the fact that my dd's bedroom is near the guest room but apart from the rest of the bedrooms. my gut tells me 'not ok' so that's what I do.
no one can predict every case of molestation, much less prevent it. and sometimes you can. everyone will draw the line between paranoia and responsibility where they will, its a very gray area. very individual.

black sheep

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 7:07 pm

Barbara wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Well, I won't have a male babysitter. I know that's not fair, but better safe.

well put! you cannot guarantee no abuser will ever be exposed to your child. it is impossible to predict who the molester will be. and many of those closest to the molesters are shocked when the stories come out because "he/she was such a great guy! so good with kids!" you can only teach your children tools to deal with it.

black sheep

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 7:08 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Well, I won't have a male babysitter. I know that's not fair, but better safe.

I used to think this way, but now I do have a friend's teenage son babysit. I know him well, I know his parents, he is "safer" than trying to find a girl I don't know well.