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Middle name of one child, first name of another?
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 10:05 am       Post subject: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
What do people think about giving a child a first name that is the middle name of a sibling? eg one child is Sarah Rochel and the other is Rochel Chana or just Rochel? The first child is known only as Sarah and the second would likely be known only as Rochel.
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elf123








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 10:42 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
I've never heard of anyone doing that. Not sure why, but there must be a reason it's not done.
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Mimisinger








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:09 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
Why would you do that? Are they being named after the same person? Why not choose another name?

Personally I think it's a little weird, but to each their own.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:16 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
Many people name for/ after relatives. We don't but presumably people do not name after the same person twice. Also, most people (including us) have a name list longer than the number of children they have or are likely to have so that could be a factor too.

I feel as if we made a mistake naming our first child. If I had known everyone would just call her Sarah I would have given just one name and saved the other in case I had another girl in the future. I've been really upset about this since she was born and I guess I'm looking for a way to use the other name.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:26 am       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
Mimisinger wrote:
Why would you do that? Are they being named after the same person? Why not choose another name?


No, we don't name after relatives so neither name is for a family member.

I feel as if we "wasted" a name by giving two names because noone ever uses the second name, however much we tell people her name is Sarah Rochel. It is quite unusual here to give two names, I knew that, but I thought people would call her by both names if we introduced her that way.

We had to pick a name at short notice because we found out we could not use one of the original names we were going to use and she was born right before a chag so I was in the hospital over the chag and could not discuss the name with my husband until he came to pick us up when the chag was over. We were not allowed to leave the hospital unless we gave a name so we rushed and now I feel we should have just given the middle name.
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chatouli








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:29 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
I could see it if they were being named after two distinct people, e.g. DW's grandmother was Sarah Rochel and DH's grandmother was Rochel Leah. Not much you can do about that if you want to name after both.

I do think that this is a shaila for your LOR. I remember my rav once said it is a question whether you can name one daughter Yocheved and the other Shifra because we don't give two children the same name and and Shifra and Yocheved were the same person. (But he held it is absolutely fine to name sisters Shifra and Yocheved.)
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shalhevet








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:46 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
I know it's technically okay, you can even call one child Yosef and one Yosef David, because they are not the same name.

BUT it would be super weird and no one does it.

About the two names. How old is your daughter? You can still get people to use both names if she's relatively little - just when people call her "Sarah" you/ she should say, "my name's Sarah Rochel". Rinse and repeat.

Do you call her both names?
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:50 am       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
chatouli wrote:
I could see it if they were being named after two distinct people, e.g. DW's grandmother was Sarah Rochel and DH's grandmother was Rochel Leah. Not much you can do about that if you want to name after both.

I do think that this is a shaila for your LOR. I remember my rav once said it is a question whether you can name one daughter Yocheved and the other Shifra because we don't give two children the same name and and Shifra and Yocheved were the same person. (But he held it is absolutely fine to name sisters Shifra and Yocheved.)


Yeah, I know some people hold that if you name your child Sarah Rochel you have honored both your grandmothers Sarah and Rochel while others hold that is an entirely new name and you have not named after either (unless one was actually called Sarah Rochel.)

Anyway, in our case we are not naming after anyone, we simply want to use both names. I thought that by giving both names, both would be used. That's how it is in my community, but here, the name Rochel is completely lost. I tell people my daughter is called Sarah Rochel and they say "Hello Sarah." I correct them and they say something like "Rochel is a nice name" then continue to call her Sarah. Even when we hold a kiddush in shul, the Rabbi announced we were sponsoring it to celebrate the birth of our daughter Sarah.

If I had known just one name would be used, I would have called her Rochel. I considered telling people her name is Sarah Rochel but we're calling her Rochel, but I didn't want to lose the name Sarah either.
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1Life2Live








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 11:51 am       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
OP- I can totally relate. We gave DS1 2 names and only call him by one... would have liked to have used the second name for a future baby, but oh well. I think it would be too weird to use the name on a sibling and I don't let it bother me too much.

Same would happen if a close relative (FIL, for example) had the second name- even if I liked it, I wouldn't use it.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 12:09 pm       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
shalhevet wrote:
BUT it would be super weird and no one does it.

About the two names. How old is your daughter? You can still get people to use both names if she's relatively little - just when people call her "Sarah" you/ she should say, "my name's Sarah Rochel". Rinse and repeat.

Do you call her both names?


She is 3 weeks so this is all hypothetical because I might never have another baby or another girl which is one reason why on the spur of the moment I gave both names.

When people ask me her name I say Sarah Rochel but I'm still upset about the name so I can't bear to call her by it. I still call her "baby" or the nickname we had for her before she was born.

I get that it would be super weird but the name Rochel is lost/ forgotten already by everyone except me and DH (even DH has started calling her Sarah, he thinks that giving 2 names is weird anyway.)
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shalhevet








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 12:19 pm       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
BUT it would be super weird and no one does it.

About the two names. How old is your daughter? You can still get people to use both names if she's relatively little - just when people call her "Sarah" you/ she should say, "my name's Sarah Rochel". Rinse and repeat.

Do you call her both names?


She is 3 weeks so this is all hypothetical because I might never have another baby or another girl which is one reason why on the spur of the moment I gave both names.

When people ask me her name I say Sarah Rochel but I'm still upset about the name so I can't bear to call her by it. I still call her "baby" or the nickname we had for her before she was born.

I get that it would be super weird but the name Rochel is lost/ forgotten already by everyone except me and DH (even DH has started calling her Sarah, he thinks that giving 2 names is weird anyway.)


Three weeks? I thought she was 19 or something!

No problem, just start calling her it and gently correcting people. They'll soon get the hang of it.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 12:21 pm       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
1Life2Live wrote:
OP- I can totally relate. We gave DS1 2 names and only call him by one... would have liked to have used the second name for a future baby, but oh well. I think it would be too weird to use the name on a sibling and I don't let it bother me too much.


How do you stop it from bothering you? Does it just get easier over time? I know I'm only 3 weeks PP so hormones are all over the place but I've been in tears several times when I've heard people use her name.

In my country you get much longer to name the baby and even then you can change it within a certan time frame. I looked into changing the name but it turns out that here it is not possible. I also was not prepared for not being allowed to leave the hospital without giving a name, especially as I could not communicate with my husband for the whole time I was in because it was chag.

So... we gave the name and left the hospital with me already in tears about it but I later found out that that part was not even official and when my husband went back the next day to register the name he could have just given Rochel.

I am still considering tellng people to call her Rochel but it is a bit late now and also the name Sarah would definitely be lost because we couldn't give the same first name twice!
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RachelEve14








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 12:25 pm       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
shalhevet wrote:
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
BUT it would be super weird and no one does it.

About the two names. How old is your daughter? You can still get people to use both names if she's relatively little - just when people call her "Sarah" you/ she should say, "my name's Sarah Rochel". Rinse and repeat.

Do you call her both names?


She is 3 weeks so this is all hypothetical because I might never have another baby or another girl which is one reason why on the spur of the moment I gave both names.

When people ask me her name I say Sarah Rochel but I'm still upset about the name so I can't bear to call her by it. I still call her "baby" or the nickname we had for her before she was born.

I get that it would be super weird but the name Rochel is lost/ forgotten already by everyone except me and DH (even DH has started calling her Sarah, he thinks that giving 2 names is weird anyway.)


Three weeks? I thought she was 19 or something!

No problem, just start calling her it and gently correcting people. They'll soon get the hang of it.


I agree! In the beginning my parents and everyone would say "How is Avi" or How is Avraham? I just answered back with Avraham Tzvi is fine, thanks. We always call him Avraham Tzvi. Everyone else does also. I even feel there was hagaga prati in keeping both his names in gan. Avraham is not a common name here at all, but there is another boy in his class with the same name. So he was either going to be Avraham Our Last Name, or Avraham Tzvi.

Keep calling her by both names. People will get the hang of it. Ds doesn't answer to Avraham. When people ask me about "Avraham" I kind of give them a subconscious funny look. He's Avraham Tzvi all the way Smile. Stick with it and keep gently correcting.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 12:59 pm       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
The other issue is that I prefer the names Sarah and Rochel to the name Sarah Rochel.

I am also not sure that people will use both names if I continue to push it because there is one other couple here who gave their 3yo daughter two names and NOONE uses both despite the parents insisting that both names must be used, even the two grandmothers use only the first name. Also, the dad is called Avraham but many people call him Avi, despite him correcting them every time. I guess people here just do what they want!

Additionally, my family are quite secular and everyone who has two names only goes by the first one. I have already sent emails and spoken to several family members about the name, spelling out that our daughter's name is Sarah Rochel, not Sarah but it hasn't made any difference, even when I've corrected them after getting it wrong again. I guess some people just find the name too long so just call her Sarah in the same way they might call Benyamin Ben.
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grin








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:06 pm       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
there may be a halachik issue here - please ask. oh, wait a minute - your first one is only 3 weeks old! maybe save the question for when you give birth again iyh!!!
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Frenchfry








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:15 pm       Post subject:
Wow. I could have written this thread, only dd is 7, and yes, the second name got dropped. I've had 2 girls since, each time I wanted to use dd's beautiful 2nd name. No one really took me seriously. (Sigh)
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sky








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:19 pm       Post subject:
Frenchfry wrote:
Wow. I could have written this thread, only dd is 7, and yes, the second name got dropped. I've had 2 girls since, each time I wanted to use dd's beautiful 2nd name. No one really took me seriously. (Sigh)


Make sure it doesn't really get dropped and it is used sometimes. Otherwise it can be a question on her kesuba.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:21 pm       Post subject: Re: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
grin wrote:
there may be a halachik issue here - please ask. oh, wait a minute - your first one is only 3 weeks old! maybe save the question for when you give birth again iyh!!!


I know, I know. You're right of course, I may never need to ask (hopefully I do!) I'm just really tearing myself up over this, I can't even bear to call my child by her name so I'm looking for a way to reconcile the situation and I thought that one way of doing that might be to keep in mind that I can always use the name Rochel for a future daughter.

Additionally, unbeknownst to me there is a stupid nickname for people called Sarah here and lots of people call my baby that when I tell them her name Sad
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Hashem_Yaazor








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:22 pm       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
Actually, if she's 3 weeks old and no one has called her Rochel, there may be halachic leeway to say it's not her name. For girls, the name goes by what she's called by. I would ask now instead of waiting till later, as there is more room to change a name this early on.
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1Life2Live








Post Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:24 pm       Post subject: re: Middle name of one child, first name of another?
Op- my DS is now almost 3 years old. I don't think about it that often and when I do, I just say, "at least I got to use two beautiful names" there was no way at the time I knew I'd have another son 17 months later. So we chose a different beautiful name for DS2. Also, we never planned on calling DS by both names.

PP can mean major hormones. This really isn't such a big deal. IY"H all your future kids will have equally beautiful names.

Since your dd is only 3 weeks old, you can still correct people to call her by both names. It sounds like that would make you the happiest.
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