And you thought the other stuff I write is kefira

yaelinIN

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 1:19 am

Y'know Bamamama. I said something similar to my husband after dinner last night at the fast (we're in Japan so our fast was over when you were in the middle of yours). I told him, what do we get when we moan and kretch about the Beis HaMikdash being destroyed, etc. Yes, I feel bad that we don't have a "complete" religion in that we can't give korbonos. Yes, I wish (really wish) we had Moshiach. But the thing that brought the Batei Mikdash down were averios between Man and G-d (avodah zara and gilui arayos) and between Man and his fellow Man (sinas chinam). Why are we sitting around when we should be scourging our relation to the mitzvos bein adam l'chavero and bein adam l'Makom? Listening to shiurim isn't enough.

We should be helping and working together with people that are Jewishly different than ourselves, even ones whose values are repugnant to us (like Kamtza and bar Kamtza), we should be out working on Jewish causes we can all get together on -- are there any? There should be! Even if a person hashkafically won't go and meet with people dressed not tzniusly or politically different from them (for example), they can help put together packages of learning material or make phone calls to people from over the Green Line to wish them an easy fast or help some family from another part of Judaism with some matter that can be done on TBA.

Yes, it's hot and yes, working together is hard, but I think the B"HM is worth it.

bamamama

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 1:53 am

yaelinIN wrote:

Great minds, Yael. Wink

It's all the homeschooling we do. Smile

I'd take it even a step further and say that we should use Tisha B'Av to create a kiddush Hashem in the world. Really try to make it a day of action to help others all over the world who are oppressed as we (communal we) were.

yaelinIN

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 1:59 am

bamamama wrote:

yaelinIN wrote:

Great minds, Yael. Wink

It's all the homeschooling we do. Smile

True dat. But I figure we have plenty to do within the tribe for at least a year or two. Wink

Then we can move to fix the world. HaShem should be plenty happy to bring Moshiach then.

bamamama

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 2:10 am

yaelinIN wrote:

bamamama wrote:

yaelinIN wrote:

Great minds, Yael. Wink

It's all the homeschooling we do. Smile

True dat. But I figure we have plenty to do within the tribe for at least a year or two. Wink

Then we can move to fix the world. HaShem should be plenty happy to bring Moshiach then.

Yes, yes. Charity begins at home and all that, but mightn't it unify us to be making a kiddush Hashem to the whole world? The additional benefit is that we would all be just Jews working together. The barriers could melt away if we had a common cause beyond ourselves.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 4:28 am

My immediate thought, regarding "tikkun olam" is to take the meals that you would be eating on a fast day, and give them to a homeless person. If that is not convenient, then figure out how much you would have spent on food (and Starbucks) and donate it to your nearest charity of choice. Volunteer in a soup kitchen. Serving the starving while you're fasting can be a very meaningful experience. Offer to babysit the rowdy children of a mother who is trying to fast and is having a hard time. There is much to be done in this world, both near and far, and many ways to contribute.

write on

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 5:00 am

Been doing a little thinking about this topic and for me it comes down to classical Jewish perspective vs. Western perspective. Today, we are all about doing, whereas "being" is almost eschewed. Can we even eat a bowl of cereal without reading the box or texting or being on the phone at the same time? I think that is why "being" is so hard, especially on Tisha B'Av when our good social conscience calls out, "Well! Don't just sit there crying! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"

But the fact is that it's G-d's tragedy and He's allowed to tell us how to mourn it and the fact is also that Tisha B'Av is NOT about doing anything other than the prescribed "program". It's about reading Eicha, which gives me the creeps each and every year anew. It's about reading the Kinos, which makes Tisha B'Av something eminently relatable as we go back in history and review all the tragedies that befell us on this day. It's about NOT greeting my neighbor, not because I don't like her or I want to be rude, but rather because I am trying to focus on the mourning so absolutely that I am not even contemplating chit-chat.

I did incorporate soul-searching this year, which was an entirely private thing, because, after all, Megillas Eicha ends with, "Hashiveinu Hashem eilecha v'nashuva." And most of all, I tried to get in touch with the pain. My pain, as a Jew in Galus. G-d's pain at being unable to dwell in our midst. I read a couple of Tisha B'Av books and felt the pain of Jewish history as over and over we make the same mistakes and G-d loves us anyhow.

Today, I am expected to get out and change the world. I was also expected to do that on Erev Tisha B'av and basically for 364 days of the year. But there is one day when I am supposed to just BE and I think that concept is very deep.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 12:24 pm

fromthedepths wrote:

And I thought this was going to be real kefira. Got too excited Wink

. Just kidding.

Seriously, though, Tisha B'Av is not for doing. It's for feeling. It's only after we feel the pain fully that we are able to act and use it in a productive way. It's not supposed to be intellectual. It's supposed to be emotional.

I've heard it said that on Yom Kippur, when we're like angels, who wants to eat? And on Tisha B'Av, when we're mourners (and may no one here have to go through the actual mechanics of it for many, many years), who can eat?

Yesterday Rabbi Brudny had an interesting point. Used to be that people would spend Tisha B'Av being aroused by the moving descriptions of maggidim. Now we have so many videos and programs that true, are getting to the root of why we have to do this again, but that aren't in keeping with the way the day was traditionally spent. There is that we're not on that level. But also, there is a source. There are two aspects to mourning - bechi, crying, which is emotional, and misped, eulogizing, which, while it can bring to tears, is more cerebral. We've got used to spending a good part of our day in the reflection. Which is important, but not the whole.