Washing Dishes During the Seuda

amother

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 12:53 pm

*Im asking this from a Manners & Etiquette perspective not a Halachik perspective*

Recently we went to visit a relative for a shabbos. It was really nice and she was so nice to host us and another family member with a couple little kids, so that we could see each other again since it hasnt worked out for the last few yomim tovim and wont work out again. I am very grateful to her for having us all over. It was a lot of work on her part (we were unable to make food and bring since it was part of a longer trip) and we are so appreciative and had such a nice time.

That being said there was one thing she did that I just thought was weird/funny. I would NEVER say anything to her, but was wondering if other people think this is a normal thing to do. I totally understand her reasoning for doing it, but still think it was... strange.

Basically she washed the dishes between every course. and she has a small kitchen and didnt want plates etc stacked so that the bottom would get dirty. So we would bring in the dishes, place them in the few empty places in her kitchen, then wait for them to be washed before we could start helping her serve the next course (couldnt put things onto platters in middle because the plates waiting to be washed were all over.) So it made the meal take a REALLY long time. which wasnt to bad at night (other then it was late) but in the day it was crazy esp with the little kids being up then and in between every course the table emptied totally and it just didnt flow.

now her reasons for doing this was it was for her oneg shabbos- otherwise she would be dreading all the dishes she had to do motzei shabbos. so I hear her point of view on that (again im not talking about halachik implications- I think she could not wash the dishes for sure during the day as that was hachana- but thats not the point of the thread right now) but still think that making the seuda drag on to wash every dish before bringing out the next course was a bit to much. Fine if you have a large kitchen with room to prep at the same time. very fine if you have a maid/cleaning lady doing it for you. but otherwise? strange, no?

Dh didnt realize what was going on (he was at the table) but during the day meal he went to the bathroom (and not for 30 seconds) and when he came out and no one was at the table he said something like so lets get the show on the road and she started telling her whole reasoning of why she is washing the dishes and he was like I didnt realize you were washing dishes. I thought you were getting the next course ready. (this is why I know all her reasoning.)

in her situation I would have either washed the dishes after the meal and to bad if I have to wash both sides of the plate- or more likely if it would really bother me I would have used paper/plastic. but she wouldnt use plastic cause that would bother her.

(really tho I would wait till after shabbos except for things I needed on shabbos- it would spoil my oneg shabbos to have to wash dishes LOL

)

so what do you think. does this idea seem normal to you or strange?

deena19k

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 12:58 pm

I also wash the dishes between each course so that it won't be so overwhelming at the end of the meal. But when I have company I do everything at the end, otherwise would be really awkward and long between the courses. But I have to say that I really do understand her. Maybe not so polite on her part, but totally understandable.

Chayalle

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 1:16 pm

Often DH invites a particular older single for the meal, and he tends to go on and on and the meal takes forever....I'm sure it's not so polite but I just can't sit so long, so I just wash up between courses. I'm sure they think I'm busy getting the next course ready....

DH has the patience of a saint for this guy...gives him all ears....and I wash up.

Lots of times if I wash up Shabbos lunch, I will use the dishes for Shalosh Seudos.....DH says once you are washing you don't have to pay particular attention to the number of plates or which you will serve.

Ruchel

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 1:26 pm

very very strange, to me

Shana_H

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 1:28 pm

I wash as I go along, I've been to homes where they don't and the food just keeps on coming and coming and coming, washing up between allows for a digestion break between courses, my girlfriends usually follow me into the kitchen for girl talk and the men stay at the table and do their thing, I've never had a complaint, in fact my Husband has said more than once it makes for a very relaxing eating experience.

amother

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 2:04 pm

I hear and as I said I totally hear where she is coming from.

The "issue" I had with it (or rather what I thought was strange about it) was that the seuda totally fell apart in the middle. its not like the talking continued. We are all siblings and sibling in laws and the kids were nephews and nieces. but because things were taking so long between (and she kept coming out of the kitchen to say stuff in middle of washing) there was a time between each course when there was NO ONE at the table. she was washing. Dh was in the bathroom. I was putting DS to sleep since it was way past his nap time (since the first 2 courses took so long), her Dh was playing with their toddler, another SIL was feeding her baby, her husband was learning on the couch. it was just so funny.

in some of the scenarios mentioned above its a little different- like if they will be there talking for an hour anyways then sure why not wash up... but in this case we were all waiting to be able to serve or eat the next course and when it didnt come after a time it kinda fell apart. didnt feel like 1 seuda. each course was like its own separate sit down meal cause everyone had to be rounded up again and it was close to a half hour (at least 20 minutes) from the last course ending.

it wasnt as bad when it was just the adults at night, but once you throw a few little kids into the picture... it changed the whole dynamics of a seuda.

and she did use paper (after many apologies for not being fancy etc which were totally not needed) for shalos seudos. so yes, once you have to wash any dishes you can wash them all, but if you dont have to wash any then I think its a hachana issue.. but thats not the point here really anyway.

greenfire

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 2:05 pm

there are times when I cannot deal with a pile up ... times when I wait till way after shabbos [think sunday or next friday] ... and times when I revert to paper dishes that can go straight into the garbage

to each their own

luvinlife

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 2:37 pm

I always wash my dishes in between unless I feel like the meal is dragging on too much. But again I don't take that long to wash the dishes so a few minutes in between courses is fine.

Lady Godiva

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 5:12 pm

You could have asked her if you could take some food to feed your kids, if that was an issue.
Having dirty dishes pile up is very stressful to some people. If I had a small kitchen, with no room to put out platters for food, I'd probably wash or rinse the dishes too! It's her house. You were the guest. She did things her way. Move on.

watergirl

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 11:26 pm

I would ask if you are my sister writing about this past Shabbos, but the number of siblings threw me off Wink

I was the hostess. She came with her kids from out of the country for a few consecutive shabbosim. She didn't bring any food and yes, I was overwhelmed with the amount of dishes so I washed them in between courses, and after asking many numbers of times to please not stack the plates, I even spazzed at her husband. (glad to know I'm not the only one with this hang up!).

OP, Im with you.

chocolate chips

Mon, Aug 19 2013, 11:33 pm

It could just be the amount of dishes were overwhelming and as you said, small kitchen, lots of people. It doesn't mean that her meals are always like that.
That said there are many people who prefer their meals to be spaced out and longer so that they get to enjoy more food and not feel stuffed after 3 huge courses.

My grandmother used to have a rota, when there were more than 4/5 people eating, each course was taken by a different family member (so my uncles and aunts and if we were there, us too) and we had to wash the dishes from that course. It was mainly so that she could have the dishes the next day (it was only shabbos night) but I know people who hate the mess and therefore wash up by day as well (otherwise its not really allowed since you do not need them before the end of shabbos).

My sil stores all her dirty dishes inside her oven Smile

kalsee

Tue, Aug 20 2013, 1:45 am

I don't get something. She left all the dishes all around the kitchen one by one, not putting anything in a pile? So that she wouldn't have to wash the bottom of the plate?
That is a very strange idea, I have never heard of it before.

Strawberry2

Tue, Aug 20 2013, 3:32 am

When I have a few guests, I always wash up before serving the next course.
Doesn't take hat long, and NO I don't want to be up an extra hour at night washing up.
Sometimes when my guest will offer to wash & I'll serve - or the opposite.
It can be very overwhelming for one person to wash, clear and serve!

Tablepoetry

Tue, Aug 20 2013, 3:54 am

It's awkward to say the least.

I do wash dishes in between sometimes - but my dh is a partner. So if we just had soup, one of us will wash the soup bowls while the other serves the next course (in platters, family style). Everyone else remains seated, the meal doesn't break up.

I also don't have lots of plates in between courses. It's soup, and a main plate. If we're having fish, it's on a pretty plastic plate.

I think the luxury of using different, separate real plates for 5 different courses is only for those who either a) have a scullery maid, b) have a working available dishwasher (even then, it takes time) or c) don't mind washing a mountain of dishes at the end of the meal. Or d) wash dishes very quickly and have a dh who serves meanwhile.
Otherwise, as you noticed, the meal loses momentum and people get fed up.

chani8

Tue, Aug 20 2013, 6:44 am

I think it's a great idea (to wash the dishes in the middle), but maybe she needed a little help to make it go faster??? There are plenty of times when other things cause the meal to make a big stop in the middle (putting kids to bed, a crying baby, etc), and everyone hangs out, patiently. So what if the meal drags on, because it's not like we're there for the food (and are 'so hungry'). We're there to shmooze in a relaxed manner. Everyone needs to feel relaxed, including the hostess who needs the dishes done in order to relax. That's my opinion. Wink

amother

Tue, Aug 20 2013, 12:22 pm

I am not holding it against her or anything (to those posters who seem to feel I have that attitude). I had just never heard/seen such a thing.

I def agree in theory that its a good idea- get the dishes down asap so they dont sit around and add stress, but in this case we are talking about a 4 course meal with 20-30 minutes in between each course and it wasnt like she stuffed her face and jumped into the kitchen (not would I have wanted her to do so) so each course itself took time too.

and I would have helped her more, but as I said its a small kitchen and there was only room for one person by the sink (she did that) and since the dishes were on all the available surfaces I couldnt help by serving/plating the next course till the dishes were basically done and there was room. (If she would have "let" stacking the plates then it would have happened faster as well.) I did do serving and clearing and prep etc- I was not sitting around twiddling my thumbs.

Also she went all out and made what I think of as yom tov meals- many sides, different options, etc so that also added to the amount of dishes that had to be washed. We appreciated all her good food- dont get me wrong, but my mentality is if having 20 types of food per a meal is going to make you crazy then dont make so many, everyone will be happy, plus the company was the "point" more then the food.

But she also enjoys making elaborate shabbosim etc so I totally hear that too- its just different mentalities.

so just to reiterate- I and dh (as well as his other sibling, spouse and the kids) really really appreciated the shabbos, helped as much as we could, and had a wonderful wonderful time. we would do it again... but next time be prepared for 3 hour shabbos meals. Very Happy