Help me help dd-is it bullying?

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:12 pm

DD is in grade two. DD has been complaining on and off for two (or maybe three) years now about being picked on. Saying that nobody likes her, girls don't let her play with them during break and the occasional physical confrontation-once spitting, a couple of times being pushed/shoved. Overall she says she is happy with school but there have been multiple days over the past few years that she has been at home and in tears because of the 'no one likes/plays with me' feeling. She does not complain every day and some days she does have nice things to say and has fun with girls but her bad days are terrible.

Is it normal to have multiple days where she will be crying after coming home from school?

Anyone been in similar situations and can advise? I'd like to do something because it's so painful to see her in pain.

Postscript: I have spoken to the teachers who have told me that she seems to be a well liked girl and seems involved. (DD says teachers are never around when there is trouble.)
We have invited girls over for play dates and even though things were splendid at home, in school they don't go that way.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:33 pm

Change schools.

You want her around normal Jewish girls. I am assuming this is a Jewish day school context?

Well, she isn't around normal Jewish girls, as I understand the term.

What in the world?

If it had been a job, and it had been you, you would have changed jobs a long time ago.

I mean, we go to school to learn, no? What do you want her to learn?

I throw out the idea of home schooling.

Now you will tell me you are afraid you can't do that so she will learn well.

She might be isolated and unhappy. Right.

Well, she already is isolated and unhappy, and you can too teach her, and you will save lots of money, and you will save money on tissues, too. She won't cry so much any more.

There are a lot of Torah homeschooling people on Imamother, do some searches for old threads. And there are a lot of resources for Torah homeschooling on the internet, do some googling.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:39 pm

I got a little carried away. What's a little savagery between kodesh classes.

Have another child, in case this one doesn't work out. The next one might have a tougher character, and spit back.

Sure. Write this one off. It's too much trouble to home school.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

vintagebknyc

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:41 pm

amother wrote:

O.P here: Seriously? That drastic?

she's been being picked on for, you say, 2-3 years. coming home crying. has been spit on, then pushed/shoved.

really? you take this long to speak with teachers (you didn't say otherwise) and think finding a new school is drastic?

amother! wake up! your dd is in trouble, she's been coming to you for help. she doesn't complain, you say, maybe because she knows you're not going to do anything about it? DO SOMETHING.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:44 pm

amother wrote:

O.P here: Seriously? That drastic?

I agree with dolly. It's not normal for a girls to feel so miserable. She might complain to you when she is older that you didn't take he out if this situation.
Where you bullied as a child? I just don't understand why you just don't ttake her out of this bad place?

EmesOrNT

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:44 pm

She's being spit on, and pushed, and not allowed to play. She's being BULLIED.

I was bullied. I remember hanging around recess time, in first grade, and waiting for it to be over. No one ever played with me. I was never physically assaulted though.

The teacher may or may not be noticing what's happening. Believe your daughter. It will only get worse from there.

See if you can have her class changed. Maybe she is socially awkward, and a bit of therapy might help. But if all else fails, yes, Dolly is right - change schools.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:46 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

she's been being picked on for, you say, 2-3 years. coming home crying. has been spit on, then pushed/shoved.

These were separate incidents.

really? you take this long to speak with teachers (you didn't say otherwise) and think finding a new school is drastic?

amother! wake up! your dd is in trouble, she's been coming to you for help. she doesn't complain, you say, maybe because she knows you're not going to do anything about it? DO SOMETHING.

I've spoken to the teachers. (Did you read through my post before being so harsh on me?!) Several times last year and at one point this year as well.

The question is; There are some good days and some bad ones. There seem to be more good days than bad ones but the bad ones almost seem to out-weigh the positive. Does that make for a definite "bullying" diagnosis? Even if she's happy over all? What can I do to help-before switching schools?

EmesOrNT

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:49 pm

amother wrote:

My mother also spoke to teachers.

When I was that young, I didn't complain every day. Some days were better than others, so I considered them fine. That doesn't mean they were fine. I had no friends. School was torture.

She is definitely being bullied. Be thankful she came to you at all. After a bit, she'll probably stop. By the time I reached 5th and 6th grade, I didn't tell my parents everything anymore.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:50 pm

EmesOrNT wrote:

I was thinking about therapy. Maybe some help with social skills would help. It's just strange because without fail every teacher I've spoken to over the years has told me that they see her to be well liked and involved. There's this disconnect somehow Sad

Does it help to talk to the teacher again if I've already spoken to the teacher? Overall there do seem to be more good days. Or maybe just more days that we don't get complaints. Do these crying days count for more?

EmesOrNT

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:54 pm

Some teachers are just oblivious. In 6th grade, some girls wrote a disgusting ditty about me on the bathroom wall. One teacher said it was just a joke. Thankfully the principal took it seriously.

Are the teachers in the classroom during recess? Bullies are smart. They wait until the teacher isn't around.

When I was in school, social skills therapy wasn't a thing. It is now. It might help, so try it. But again, if it doesn't work, its time to put her into a new environment.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:58 pm

Being hit with a hammer only occasionally is still being hit with a hammer, OP.

After the third such bad day, you should have changed schools, way back two years ago.

Once can be a freak incident.
Twice can be another freak incident.
Three times and it is the reality around here. Stay, and you are toast.

You have listened to two things, the teachers and your desires.

1) The teachers haven't seen it, be cause bullies know how to act nice when authority is around,

2) Your desires have been to have the things that you believe in, meaning institutions with nice reputations, be ok. That's a belief you value having. It makes you feel good. It is hard to part with it. Thinking otherwise makes your world come apart a bit.

The one thing that came a distant third was what was in front of your eyes, the kid.

You have put what you saw with your own eyes dead last.

I don't blame the school. They can't see what's going on. Alas, they admit some unfit children.

This may reflect poorly on the community. It is entirely possible you should move. It might actually be easier to do that than to home school. Why would you want to live near such people?

Not that homeschooling is the end of the world for difficult. People do it.

(Disclosure: I haven't done it.)

If you can't move, look into homeschooling. PM some of the people here who do it.

vintagebknyc

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:58 pm

amother wrote:

yes, I read it through. you said in your post script "I've spoken to teachers, etc" this, to me, says you've spoken to them once? you don't say how much. so yeah, I read it. we're all reading it. and you're still wondering if she's being bullied. when someone mentions therapy, you say perhaps she can get help with social skills.

this makes me want to throw my laptop across the room.

if you think this is harsh, think about how dd feels every. single. day.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:01 pm

Would you complain every day if you were ignored? No. It's tiring to re-live the day's sorrows. Better to just go to bed. What does complaining get her?

I would like to know where the schools get off leaving the young unsupervised even for one second, even during recess or whatever. Plenty can happen.

I am developing a bad feeling about the teacher(s) who say all these nice things. It is not probable they are telling the truth. A miserable child acts like one.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ashrei

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:02 pm

I'm following this thread and just wondering: Let's say definitely, there is bullying - Is switching schools/class the only answer to this? (I have a feeling yes, but just wondering if anyone's 'worked through it.')

HUGS to OP, this must be very hard.

Learning

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:14 pm

When a child is bullied from day 1 she is used to it. She is used to being in a bad spot. She never knew anything better. She doesn't know to complain. She just cries. Soon c'v she will be so hopeless she wil stop even talking about it.

groisamomma

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:32 pm

As a teacher, I agree with Emes, these things have a way of flying under the radar even for the most observant teacher. DD needs to complain on the spot (tell the teacher you are telling dd to complain so she won't call it tattling) so teacher can deal with it then and there. If you come to the teacher with a list of complaints you've never acted on (possibly because you didn't think it was serious and also because you didn't want to rock the boat, or whatever reason) then the teacher won't take it as seriously as if you state that it is happening right now, every day, and must be dealt with STARTING TODAY.

You can't sound unsure when you call because teachers tend to take their cues from the parent and if the parent sounds uncertain then the teacher will reassure her and move on with limited action taken.

P.S. If the teacher isn't around or dd is uncomfortable telling her when it happens, call the teacher the day it occurs after dd gets home from school. Persist, call enough times and the problem will be addressed.

Good luck OP, nobody likes to watch their kid suffer.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:51 pm

OP here. Thank you all for your replies thus far.

Vintage, I know there's a problem and I'm trying to figure out how to address it. I know she's in pain and I am too. I would appreciate more constructive comments, not hurtful ones, thank you.

I have to get some numbers of therapists. I had considered switching classes but was told by some staff that it's not necessary and that she's with a good group of girls. Rolling Eyes

There's clearly an issue though. Another question I have is-what is to be considered 'immature, little girl, catty behavior' vs. over stepping it, over-doing it, bullying. To a certain extent, girls can be mean. Is this just mean or is it over the top? Either way we have issues we must work through with DD but the question is, is it really bullying or is it her not knowing how to handle or being over-sensitive? (Does anyone else have kids who've been through anything similar?)

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:54 pm

EmesOrNT wrote:

Thanks so much. It really helps to have a perspective from someone who has been through something similar. It seems that the teachers are around at the beginning of break but then disappear, at least according to dd. When I mentioned the issues to the teacher previously she told me that she's there during recess and tries to see what's going on but that in a big class you can never see everything Rolling Eyes