Landlord is imposing a no Internet rule. what to do?

Tablepoetry

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 9:15 am

amother wrote:

Ha, ha Marina. Of course religious discrimination is legal in Israel. Just look at all the companies - including the Israeli government - that refuse to hire qualified chareidim.

Religious discrimination is NOT legal in Israel. You can't just refuse to hire someone because he is charedi or Arab or Buddhist. However, it's really really hard to prove, and when you have three candidates for a certain job, usually the person in charge will prefer to hire someone he feels more of a 'connection' with, shall we say.

And I have to wonder how many charedi companies hire secular people. For example, the charedi papers....I wonder if a super qualified secular female photographer showed up....would they hire her???

I know that LEGALLY discrimination is not allowed. In all the papers, it's clearly stated that all ads are meant for BOTH men and women (because of linguistic limitations, they're usually written in male form). BUT....job discrimination occurs all the time, people prefer to hire their own 'kind'.

What's legal here is different from what happens on the streets.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 9:26 am

Back to renting an apartment.....landlords here refuse tenants all the time. They don't have to give a reason.

So I don't know if it's legal or not. But I do know it exists. Some Israelis won't rent to Arabs, some won't rent to people who don't keep Shabbat, some won't rent to charedim, some won't rent to people from X country.

I actually see ads in the paper all the time, 'flat for rent for shomer shabbat family' or even 'secretarial job for God fearing woman' so either it's not THAT illegal or no one cares enough to make a fuss.

It's really a grey area. For example, if I'm a charedi family and I'm renting out my basement flat, is it my right to ensure the person who moves in won't be playing music on shabbat?

Where does it stop? If I'm a vegetarian, is it my right to ensure the tenant won't be having BBQs that offend my sensibility? (There's actually a yeshuv like that in the north).

Usually, in Israel up until now, it's kind of been laissez faire in this area. As long as you aren't too vocal and don't shout 'I'm not renting to Arabs/or whoever' from the rooftops, no one really intervenes, for better or for worse.

grace413

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 10:03 am

5*Mom wrote:

The tenant is responsible for paying arnona, not the landlord.

I had been in the apartment for 3 months. The arnona had not been paid for 10 years. Many landlords do not want the tenant to pay the arnona directly because they don't want the authorities to know they are earning taxable rental income. So they ask the renters to give them the arnona money. Then the landlord pays the arnona - or doesnt.

debsey

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:09 pm

This request sounds intrusive to me. Will he next want to know exactly what hechsherim you use, which lullabies you sing to your kids, and which chumros you do or don't do in the bedroom? At what point does a request become a boundary violation.
I can understand anything that would damage the apartment - like smoking - or, if he's paying for some sort of data plan - something that would bring up his costs. But nowadays, who uses dial-up? What if you move in and are comfortable and quite pregnant, and he now decides on a new chumrah for you? What will you do then? DON'T sign.

ectomorph

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:26 pm

It depends how chareidi you want to be, OP.

You have to accept that this is the way it works and decide whether you are willing to deal with this.

This is making you aware that there will be severe social repercussions if you let your daughters wear bright pink, your kids play ball on Shabbos, go to a therapist, etc.

That's just the way it is in some communities. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but only you know how ready you are for this.

ectomorph

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:33 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

OK, it's possible I'm going to demonstrate some extreme, Dilbert-like ignorance of the world, but if someone has internet access, can other people who don't but live nearby leach on?

Depends what type of internet connection the person has.

Happens all the time in Boro Park though. I have a friend who tells people that they can't have her password because she's not the 'internet [gentile]'.

debsey

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:40 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I don't know, ectomorph. I see a difference with those things. I live in a community where if you let your son play ball on shabbos, some families won't associate with you. I kind of GET that - if I want to provide a certain chinuch and you don't - I don't want your kids causing my kids to be dissatisfied - (I don't DO this, but I GET it) but what happens in the privacy of my own home should STAY in the privacy of my own home.
My good friend allows her children to watch Disney movies. I know she watches movies herself. I do not. I can ask her not to show movies when my kids come over to play, but surely whatever she's watching in the privacy of her own bedroom is her OWN business?
So if a new neighbor moved in and asked me - do you show your kids secular movies - before letting her kids play with mine - I'd answer forthrightly and it would be fine with me. But if she asked me about MY viewing or reading habits, I'd think it's intrusive.
debsey

Orchid

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:41 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

OK, it's possible I'm going to demonstrate some extreme, Dilbert-like ignorance of the world, but if someone has internet access, can other people who don't but live nearby leach on?

Only if it's unsecured. Password protect it, and then no one can leach on.

(Hope I won't get flamed for this, but...) I think only people with Israeli experience should respond with ideas for OP. Here in the US we have all sorts of ideas about freedom, tenant/landlord relations, discrimination, privacy, etc. that simply don't exist in Israel. So responses based on these ideals are not practical for OP.

Upthread you got great advice from someone saying - welcome to Israel, the land where everything is everyone's business. That we Americans don't like that will not change the reality on the ground.

OP - I know it was hard for you to find an apt, but agree you should probably look more and hold off on this one unless you have zero other leads.

Also agree with the poster upthread who said to live in an American area, at least at first. I imagine these areas wouldn't have such types of landlords.

Hatzlacha.

debsey

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:44 pm

Orchid wrote:

Good point! It's been YEARS since we lived in Israel, and that was a very american area.....and BEFORE the Internet (yes, there was such a time......long time ago and in a galaxy far away)
debsey

ectomorph

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:04 pm

debsey wrote:

But you're in the US. In EY it's not "normal" for a family that watches videos to socialize with a family who doesn't. The amount of permitted religious variation within any community is very small, and any hint of not fitting in carries much more severe consequences.

That's my point - being Chareidi in EY is very, very different from being Chareidi in the US, and this story is just a symptom of that.

I would love to live in EY, but I am used to being allowed to pick and choose. I have internet, but not an iphone. I wear bright colors but not red. I am still considered yeshivish. We would not have that flexibility in EY.

Orchid

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:14 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Great post. This is exactly why I advise OP to live in an American area. That suggestion answers her immediate dilemma and the larger issue she may be unaware of.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:14 pm

ectomorph wrote:

This is true - in the very charedi world. There are many, many communities here that are a lot more heterogeneous.

chaiz

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:16 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I am not sure it is standard at all. There are plenty of peole in my city who have internet and are on Facebook. Our landlord did not say anything about phones/internet when we signed the lease. If he would have, I would have said no way.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:16 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I may get flamed for this (seems a lot of people are saying this lately Wink

) but the sentence that I bolded above holds true only in the charedi world in Israel. I am friends with people in the dati leumi community and the MO community who may or may not watch tv or videos. We socialize with anyone. It has no baring on anything in our world. This phenomenon only holds true in the charedi world, that if we do x you wont socialize with us but if we do y its ok and you will.
Not saying if this is good or bad, just saying this really only holds true in the charedi world.