Earning over 150K without a College Degree

cookiecutter

Thu, Aug 21 2014, 8:33 pm

amother wrote:

It is possible to win the lottery also. People need to stick with probable and highly likely when making career plans. Possible is too far fetched to plan a life on. Horatio Alger stories always were fiction.

Without capital most businesses can't make it. Please tell me how to open a carpet store without capital or backing. It is great to be a carpenter. Carpenters are not making big money swinging their hammers. They are making the money once they have capital to invest in their business. A good carpenter can be billed out at $55. This is not what he is taking home.

I mean, if you really want a business plan...
Get samples/swatches of carpet. Advertise smartly (couple hundred dollars in frum publication x 3-4 ads), plus signs in your local public areas (elbow grease, printer). Undercut the competition, because you are doing it part time and have almost no overhead, but require a substantial deposit and C.O.D. Presto, carpet store.

In reality it is less complicated than that, because you are not choosing a random field but a niche that you have identified as having potential.

Carpenters/handymen don't make the big bucks when they are solo and working for $55 an hour. But the frum people I know bill $75 an hour for labor and have their $20 an hour worker perform the work while they work for another $75 an hour somewhere else. That doesn't take capital, it takes a year to build a reputation. I wish there were more people like that where I live now - we are stuck with either random undependable individuals or the big corporate ones who have no interest in fixing your ***** washing machine and if you have any complaints, you are told by a customer service call center in Toledo that sorry, they don't guarantee that kind of work.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 2:07 am

cookiecutter wrote:

Your model is interesting because I know many people who pay $55 to the frum guy who just sells the job out. I personally will pay $20 to the non frum guy.

I know many frum companies that hire non Jewish companies to do the work and just sell the jobs to frum people, but add no value. They sub out the entire job. I don't understand why the frum consumers allow this. Why don't they go directly to the non Jew? It makes no sense to me. For instance when frum people build houses or do home repairs they could save tremendously on the construction costs.

There is an advantage to the non Jewish company because they get work in the frum communities. There is an advantage say to the Jewish business owner because they can get paid to essentially step on the job. Why do frum people pay $40,000 more to a frum framer to hire a non Jewish framing company?
I just built my house and I couldn't find one frum framer who didn't sub out the work. I saved $40,000 by going directly to the non Jewish company. I just painted my house and saved more than half the cost by going directly to the non frum painters. I bid the job out to the frum companies and they came in double. I could give many more examples of this.

As long as frum people do not trust g○ys in general then this will continue to work. It boggles my mind why people are willing to pay a frum tax.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:26 am

amother wrote:

It boggles my mind how can you not understand that some frum contractors are depending on that exact job to pay their bills.
Of course going to a non jew is cheapee but how is the jewish contractor suppose to make his living.
I live in a city where shopping in Walmart and big bucks chain are much cheaper but how is the little jewish grocer supposed to pay his bills.
We as jews are supposed to help each other first before going to a non jew.
(I do understand if you are really strapped for cash you will try the cheapest option, but give a jewish guy a chance)
The biggest form of tzedaka is giving someone parnassa

MaBelleVie

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:45 am

amother wrote:

My husband is not in one of those fields.

This isn't even about the money. In his place, resumes without a college degree listing are automatically rejected. I'm sure that's standard in most business, besides maybe in the very frum world.

Not in a field that usually makes money? Then why would you recommend it?

Of course certain industries require college degrees. No one is disputing that. The fact is, for people with a different skill set, college is not always necessary or even recommended.

Barbara

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:46 am

amother wrote:

He's supposed to make a living by charging a reasonable fee for his services. I don't expect unsustainable rates -- one reason I rarely shop Walmart,support an increase in the minimum wage, and rage against people who want to stiff people who work for tips -- but I'm not paying triple so some frum guy can sub the work to someone else (who thinks that his much lower rate is indeed sustainable).

But if you don't mind paying double or triple the price for services, I'll be glad to double my usual rate and help you out when you need.

cookiecutter

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:52 am

amother wrote:

What? So now it's a moral obligation to pay more than twice as much as the job is worth "to give a yid parnassa"?

I don't know where that poster lives that contractors don't add any value, but if it's true, then there's no reason to use them. Where I live now, you just can't get anything done, but in my old neighborhood, the contractors were valuable because they had regular workers whom they knew they could trust, and they were answerable to the person who hired them. Sure, you could have picked up day laborers, but then you have the responsibility of making sure they do it right. And if you looked in the yellow pages, you would get a higher price from someone in a neighboring community.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:57 am

amother wrote:

It is not nice to overcharge and then use religion to squeeze money. If the Jewish contractor was 10% over, I could see that. When I hired my painters, the lowest quote from a Jew was $20,000. I paid less than $10,000 directly and hired the same painters.*

I do shop in frum stores when I can. I give tzedaka. It is called tzedaka when I give it. I get to count it towards my masuer. I can't count the 100% profit as tzedaka because it is not. It is an excuse to gouge. I was told by my Rabbi that I don't have to use frum stores when the difference is greater than 12%. Why should I pay a contractor double?

The Jewish contractor should make a living with an honest mark up. He shouldn't exploit the fact that his community is conditioned not to deal with non Jews. He should add value to the services offered.

*The painting price is not out of line because of the size of my house and the trim work and colors selected.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:59 am

There are many people who are not cut out for college, and many people who are cut out for college but not the workforce. I personally scored 2320 on my SAT and am not cut out for a job or making money at this point in my life. I would be a terrible entrepreneur, and actually people with better social skills and less intelligence than me do far better in the workforce, making more money. My uncle cannot read and he is worth over 800 million dollars. Real estate. My chassidish, divorced friend whose only education is Satmar is making 250,000 - 500,000 a year depending on the year, plus heavily investing it in real estate, giving her millions of dollars in assets. I am not a go getter like her, I couldn't do that, but there are several people who can, and don't need degrees for it.Most careers do not pay big bucks: it's more about the individual. That includes law, medicine, and accounting. That being said, college is extremely important and more often than not gives people an upper hand in a career, as well as a better chance at earning more. Don't forget all of the student loans that need to be paid back as well.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 7:05 am

cookiecutter wrote:

I am not talking about day laborers. I am talking about sub contractors. I wouldn't use day laborers to paint my house, nor to frame it.
I also won't use guys who "borrow"someone's license.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 7:20 am

All following careers have potential to earn 150K+ a year w/o a degree
Mortgage Broker, Real Estate Broker, Insurance Broker, Real Estate Investor, Stocks, Contractor, Developer, Title Agency, Photographer, Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic, Consultant, etc.

All the following careers are careers with college degrees (masters as well) and not everyone will earn 150K+
Teachers, psychologists, social workers, Health care incl. nursing, this list goes on and on...............

chocolate chips

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 7:36 am

At the end of the day even a person who is doing really well without a degree, when they have to look for a new job they WILL lose out because they will go for the jobs that they are worthy of (and good for) but they will be missing one thing - a degree.

At the end of the day you DO learn things in uni/college, things that are in addition to experience.

That is the way it is.

And op count your lucky blessings EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Because my dh is AMAZING at his job and what he does. But he works for a frum company and does not make anywhere close to $80K forget over 100k.

freidasima

Fri, Aug 22 2014, 7:52 am

I can't tell you abroad but in EY there are high tech people who don't have degrees who are earning very high salaries, and other jobs like top newspaper reporters, television personalities etc. where people without degrees but with lots of experience usually beginning with their army service are maybe not earning big bucks but are taking home very respectable paychecks. People can also make money with private businesses and also with good trades but for that they have to have tremendous mazel and work very hard.

At a certain point in certain jobs though, someone may have gotten in as a young maverick after the army such as reporters etc. but after 20 years there are younger and cheaper mavericks and if the older one doesn't have a degree by then, they are not able to climb the ladder. That isn't true in high tech or in private businesses or in trades but it is true in some companies. That's where it is worthwhile to go for a degree later, even in something like the Open university.

People with college degrees don't necessarily get jobs that are high paying, even people with Phds. Lots of people with higher degrees end up taking a second MA or even a second Phd in a totally different field and end up working in both, consecutively or simultaneously. For some it's the only way to make a decent living.

In any case it is possible to make a living without a college degree but really depends on the person, on the profession, on a lot of mazel..