Why do these 2 weeks exist???

ora_43

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 2:09 am

Twizzlers wrote:

I dont think I'm overestimating at all.
Do you think other professions never have to take work home with them? Or come in on "vacation" days for professional training?
"tweaking a course schedule" - seriously? I spend hours of my non working time "tweaking a schedule" for my kids that are off from school! Maybe I should be entitled for a vacation just for that.

Do you want your kids' teachers to have your level of expertise at creating a course schedule? If so, you could probably find people willing to work under worse conditions than what the schools currently offer.

Quote:

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but the only day that I am off aside from actual yom tov is Tisha B'av. I work 6 days a week, till at least 3 on erev shabbos and yom tov, and the past 2 years I've worked on purim as well. And I do all this to pay for my kids tuition. And I should feel sorry for the poor teachers who need even more vacation??

You don't need to feel sorry for them. But it's ridiculous to get angry with them.

Each job has its ups and downs. Do you think it's unfair that people in other jobs earn less money than you do?

If teaching really has such amazing conditions, I'm sure there are would-be teachers out there willing to work more days for the same money. So instead of getting angry, go find those people and hire them.

ora_43

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 2:19 am

Twizzlers wrote:

I dont think I'm overestimating at all.
Do you think other professions never have to take work home with them? Or come in on "vacation" days for professional training?

And this - come on, it is nowhere near comparable. Most people I know have to take a few phone calls at home or do a bit of extra paperwork. Most teachers have to grade 50-100+ assignments per week. Unless they're just choosing grades at random, that's several hours of work.

RachelEve14

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 4:40 am

EVERY job has it's plusses and minuses. I'm a metapelet. Yes, I get more than the 2 weeks of vacation obligated by law, but I also work more than full time hours (9.5 hours a day vs. 9 hours a day for normal full time, so pretty much every month I work an extra day that my parents DON'T). In my husband's job also, if he works extra hours he earns extra vacation. I also have no choice when to take my vacation. Bar Mitzvah or wedding not in August? Sorry, no can do. I've already warned my parents that I won't be "off" when I make a double bat mitzvah IY"H next year. So yes, they are going to fly in and I am going to spend no time with them. Maybe I should have timed all my kids to be born in August.

Amother, there is no reason to get so angry. Presumably you are working your job and not working as a metapelet or teacher because that is what you prefer. You might have perks in the job, or you might enjoy it more,or it might pay better. Every job has it's ups and downs and every job has things that are great about it and things that are terrible about it. Such is life.

Mommy3.5

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 9:24 am

personally, I love these two weeks, Actually its a week and a alf here, but its the only time I dont need to put pressure on myself and my kids to be up and out in a timely manner. I can hang out in my pajamas and take it easy, and sometime later in the day take my kids to the park or a trip, whatever, No pressure. Just relaxed.

Im not saying that having all of them home at once is easy, or not messy, just that im happy we have the time to decompress, and I would not mind it being a bit longer...

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 9:36 am

Mommy3.5 wrote:

I like your attitude! As a basically SAHM in the summers, I will confess to having my moments of looking forward to school starting (which I can say now that my kids are older Wink

) but I do feel for working parents who have no latitude. Or who do take off for the summer at the expense of stress at other times.

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 10:05 am

I joined this too late and only read the first few pages...

Did anyone mention that in Israel those "two weeks" are 10 weeks?. The kids are off from June 30 - Aug 31. There are no sleep away camps (some very very expensive ones are popping up). The little kids may have 3 weeks of local day camp (8-1). Nothing for preteens and no camp jobs for teens (problem if you don't have camps).

My thirteen yo DD had 4 days of Bnei Akiva camp in the woods. She also ran a backyard camp for grade 1-3 two weeks. This summer's main activity was the war (we have one every two years).

These 2 weeks are the most important cause she's finally doing her summer homework

nylon

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 11:19 am

A few things:

1) Those 2 weeks are a problem for non-frum families. Yes, smaller kids are in year round daycare; for school age kids it's the same problem. You need to find a fill in program and it can be tricky. They do exist but it involves patching together programs and supply doesn't meet demand.

2) "In Israel it's 10 weeks"--that's arguing that summer vacation is too long. In UK it is 6. I think the 11 week summer vacation is just too long, period.

3) I know many people--secular and frum--who cannot take those 2 weeks off. Americans are not guaranteed any time off. Many people only get 10 days. I know people who only get 10 days PTO INCLUDING sick time. This is legal. (My DH gets 16 including sick days). If we both worked we couldn't take these 2 weeks: between chagim and sick kids we'd need to leave time, much less any family vacation. In some areas it is an 11 week summer vacation so there are a total of 3 weeks to cover. Also a good number of sleepaway camps now only go 7 weeks because of schedule variation, if they are getting kids from different areas. Much of Pennsylvania and Maryland went back to school today and finish the first week of June, not the NYC schedule of after Labor Day to 3rd week of June (and even some places that start after Labor Day finish 2nd week as they do not take February break week like NY)

The camp I went to as a child finished this year on August 13 (despite a primarily NYC area clientele). Even Ramah Berkshires--which I picked because Ramah is geographically split and so everyone should be on a post-Labor Day start--finished on the 13th this year. That is 3 weeks at the end, though they began on June 27, so there was no time pre-camp to fill for NYC-area kids.

yes, teachers are working. For the system as a whole, in terms of how we care for children--those 2 weeks are a problem! If you are in a secular day care running year round... they stagger the vacations.

On their own the frum schools can't solve this problem. It is systemic. Having all the teachers off at the same time, in a system where parents don't have vacation time, is a problem. If this were Europe and we all had 4-6 weeks paid vacation, it wouldn't be the same.

granolamom

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 7:28 pm

amother wrote:

Playgroup here charges by the month (that's how the "tuition" is stated). So I felt a bit taken advantage of a couple years back when my child was staying with his playgroup teacher for the summer also (she was running a camp with a weekly rate) and on June 1 I paid a full month's tuition but 2 weeks into the month I had to pay the same individual a weekly rate. It felt like double dipping to me. Not sure what the solution is though.

if the playgroups would start giving a prorated tuition for months like september and april when they are closed more than they are open, then the rate for the other months would go up. the morah figures out what she needs annually and splits it accordingly. you want it split unevenly so you pay less in sept than in oct, fine, but you'll end up paying the same over the course of the year. when school is over mid June, you still pay the monthly fee. camp is a new contract, even if its with the same morah. had you switched to a different camp you'd still have had to pay twice in June.
maybe the solution is to budget for this and to expect these fees so you dont feel taken advantage of or surprised. its no secret that the kids will be off for a few weeks between camp/school.

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 7:38 pm

I understand that I pay the same for April and December as I do for the other months - yes, vacations do come. But I feel like it's really abusing the system to open for a week and charge for a full month.

Yes, the tuition is probably an average - but that's taking into account sending HER kids out so she can watch mine, projects, assistant, etc... A week does not cost the same as a month and it's really not right to charge that.

And if I usually budget in $250 for a month of childcare, the month of June cost me $250 + 3 weeks at $65 each. And you know what? This month, my kids are home, because I can't afford to pay for more childcare this summer!

And yes, I work. From home. When my kids let. (which isn't often at this point.)

amother

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 8:16 pm

granolamom wrote:

No, the verbal "contract" is that it is a monthly fee. Not an annual fee spread over 10 months.

amother

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 8:19 pm

Whoops, hit submit to soon. I wanted to say, the "proof" of this is that camp is $75/week and playgroup $300/month (which is basically the same thing). If it was an annual cost divided into 10 it wouldn't be the same equivalent monthly as camp is weekly. So yes, it's double dipping to me to pay $300 on June 1 and then $75/week halfway into the month. You don't need to tell me about budgeting, I can afford my childcare, thank G-d. The affordability is not the point.

sky

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 8:38 pm

Barbara wrote:

There are a total of 13 days of chag -- Rosh Hashanah (2), Yom Kippur (1), Succot/Simchat Torah (4), Pesach (4), Shavuot (2). But , AFAIK, the most that can ever be on weekdays is 11, and most years it is considerably fewer.

I know it's difficult. I only had 15 days for a long time. But even with that, I was usually able to take a week vacation.

Yes, but chol hamoed my kids are also not in school and eruv almost every yom tov, and sometimes the day after every yom tov. And winter vacation. And Chanuka vacation. And their vacations don't always line up because the boy and girl school and play groups don't always have the same vacation schedule. And snow days.

All the days add up on top of summer vacation.

My DH works for a small company that isn't required to provide vacation days. We try to trade off, but it is really, really tough.
I would love to go on a small vacation for my own sake. We have amazing Sunday experiences in the summer. But that is about it.

chestnut

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 12:08 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

2 weeks? Is that all? Here in Israel most kids have all summer off. There are some camps here and there but nothing like in america. My daughter had a camp from her gan for the entire july but in august she was home. Now, this summer she was lucky as was I as I am between jobs. Last summer, it was very hard and I had to scrounge around finding her play dates and other things and I had to take off. I worked 3/4 days and it was a whole month that she had no organized activities.
It is extremely hard to organize the summer here as well. A whole month of trying to figure out which parent has to take off for this amount of days and then the other one.
Its hard. Thats for sure.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that schools are free in israel. if that would be the case here, no one would be whining about these vacations and just pay for a playgroup/babysitter/take vacation (not to mention that the yomim tovim are prob. national holidays for ppl at any job, so no need to use vacation time)

chestnut

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 12:11 am

causemommysaid wrote:

I agree. I cant think of a job that has more time off than a teacher.

yes they dont get paid a lot. assume a teacher in a frum school earns about 40K maybe 45K. thats not a large salary but you also have to take into account their reduced tuition benefits which in some schools their kids go free of charge plus they have vacation the same time as their kids so they never have to pay for extra daycare. That adds up to a whole lot of money. Plus they have a ridiculous amount of time off from work. 2 months of summer plus all yom tov, chol hamoed, most secular holidays, erev yom tov, extra days before pesach and succos, isru chag....

there are PLENTY of parents who are working at job that pay this much and are trying to pay the tuition.

also, is this the salary for half a day or for working 2 teaching jobs equal to full workday?

Rutabaga

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 12:18 am

It depends on where a school is located, but often the yeshiva schedule is based on the public school schedule for practical reasons. If busing is provided through the school district, then it makes sense to follow the district schedule as much as possible to minimize the days that parents have to carpool.

If schools get government funding (and most do in some form), then there are rules about how many days they need to be open. There might not be room in the budget for the school to be open more than it is already.

It's true that the public schools schedule is based on archaic norms (agricultural society), but it's not so easy to change. Particularly in NYC, where the teachers union is incredibly strong, it would be difficult to increase the number of school days without raising salaries. And again it comes back to budgets.

RachelEve14

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 2:47 am

chestnut wrote:

School is not free in EY. Much, much cheaper, but not free. And parents still need daycare on days there is no school and are workdays. Every day is a workday, including Erev Chag (but that is a 1/2 day). YT is a holiday, but that is it. And Yom Ha'atzmaut. All the other days schools are closed (Chanukah, Chol HaMoid, before Pesach, 2 months in the summer, isru chag, Purim / Shushon Purim, should I go on?) and all work days. Daycare and tzharon (after school care) work a fuller schedule, but still there are gaps. In EY with a 2 parent family and paying for kaytonot you can just cover the summer. But not everyone can take off all the right times, and there are still other days when daycare is needed that are not school days.

slushiemom

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 4:08 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I feel for you working parents who are scrambling.
As far as SAHMs, or teachers, etc., it is hard. It's a long break. Many other countries don't have as long a summer, and everyone's ready to get back on schedule. I used to run Camp Mommy and it was lots of fun but the last few weeks were tough sometimes. I think that if my kids would have needed blood tests the tube would fill with freeze pops. And this is the time of year I'd be outside with them doing chazara of Gordon Korman and comic anthologies to stay sane.
OTOH, yeah, do try to enjoy your kids and at the very least, don't telegraph to them that your life begins again the moment the school bus pulls up.

Thanks for reminding me! I've been meaning to order Gordon Korman books for the kids, my almost 8 year old will love them. I use betterworldbooks.com they're amazing. used books for about five dollars each and free shipping to israel!