Overweight and a snitcher

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 2:29 pm

malky800 wrote:

My daughter is very overweight. It is partially genetic from my husband side.
He , his mother, sisters all are fat.
So when my daughter at 7 starting hitting the 90 percentile for weight we went to drs.
First we ruled out anything endocrinology.
Then we went to a nutritionist who helped us as parents make meal plans and appropriate calories,etc.
She was always happy to follow the menu and prepared her snacks according. Otherwise, we don't have a large selection of fatty stuff in the house. No chips and we make cookies with splenda. Candy only on shabbos. Etc. It's a family thing we all work on.
We never told her outright, you are fat and that's why we do this. It's more like healthy, so you don't develop things like diabetes or cholesterol like other members.
The problem is like this. She was always a snitcher. I would find food in her bed. Wrappers. Etc. We would talk about it.
I keep telling her, if you are hungry, come to the kitchen and I'll find something for you to eat. You shouldn't hide it in your bed. It's not like she would take cookies, I would find half eaten containers of Mandels. or a bag of chocolate chips empty. Last night it was 15 slices of cheese missing. Where did it go?
In the meantime her weight is just rising and rising.
we tried resuming sessions with the nutristionist and after a few sessions I told her it's no point. She keeps a food diary but she of course doesn't write down all the stuff she takes without permission, so we aren't getting anywhere.
At quiet times we talk and talk. She doesn't say, I am starving or feel deprived. It sounds more like, it was there and I couldn't resist. So I tell her, if you want mandels, take a handful. You see the chocolate chips, take a few. DON"T TAKE THE WHOLE BAG.
Generally, our way of dealing with it, if she took cheese, then the next few days instead of taking cheese for lunch, I tell her, you already took 5 slices, so the next lunch you can't have cheese because you took already.
Or with mandels, you won't have this friday night, becuase you already had your share.
Now my husband sat down with me last night and said, he is giving up. Obviously , punishing her isn't having the desired response. He wants to just tell her, she's almost 10 and she has to take her own responsibilty. If she is going to eat, she wont' fit into her clothes and will look bad. He is hoping leaving it to her, might make her respond better.
I'm not sure, how can I expect a 10 year old to take responsibilty, when it seems (at least to me), that she doesn't care at this point that she is fat.
I am looking for serious advice on how to deal with this. Not just sympathy.
Anyone successfully dealt with a kid like this, or remember what it was like when their mother did .... as an overweight kid.

Seriously, I'm telling you this to be a friend. BACK. OFF.
Now.
You say you are not telling her "You're fat so that's why we're doing this." But every thing you posted is telling her loud and clear "You're fat and we don't like it so that why we are doing this." And you need to stop; you are causing more problems than you are fixing.

Yes, I am speaking from experience.

Your dd sounds a lot like me at that age. In my case, it was genetics from my mother's side (nearly every woman on her side of the family is overweight-obese) and a crazy mix of hormonal issues.

My mother did all the stuff you did robed you are doing. She made it worse. Food was my coping mechanism. The more she was on my case, the more I snuck food. At age 15 I was wearing women's size 28 clothing.

It was not until my mother backed off and left me alone that I could seriously evaluate myself, and begin the work I needed to do to lose the weight and have a healthier relationship with food.

People of average weight don't realize that the absolutely worse thing they could ever do to someone who is overweight is to mention or act like their weight is a problem or bothers others. That will 99% of the time drive the overweight individual into the negative; into self loathing, depression, detachment from others. I know it feels counter intuitive but the absolutely BEST THING anyone can do for someone they love who is overweight is to just LOVE them and never, ever cause them to feel self conscious about the way they look. Usually good, lasting weight loss only comes around when the individual feels loved and secure in who they are as a person.

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 2:50 pm

amother wrote:

This could have been written by my mom, too. And guess what? You are going about it in such an awful way that, I'm predicting, she'll only keep gaining. My mom locking up food, shaming me, crying about how I was going to die at 20, telling my she loved me and would buy me new clothes if I lost weight didn't work. I only overate more to overcome the emotions that I was feeling about my body and my family. You need to approach this very, very carefully or your daughter will sink herself further into this by comforting herself with food.

The way we discussed weight in my family was so unhealthy. Six year-olds were told that they needed to wear clothes that made them look "sleek." When my family got together, my weight was a constant focus and was "the ultimate goal." Got good grades? Fantastic. Nice to your brother? Great. Lose weight? LETS THROW A PARTY & alert the universe - and serve cake because you've been so "good." And if I was 10 and weighing and measuring my food, I probably would be so down on myself that I would've been sneaking food even more.

If you want to be successful in empowering her to be HEALTHY, you need to think about the following:

Speech: You are going to have to be careful here. Your words could spark the exact opposite reaction that you're looking for. For me, a huge trigger was when my mom said: "Do you really need that second piece?" I hated that line so much that I ALWAYS took the second piece just to spite my parents. And for crying out loud, don't take her to a WW meeting with a bunch of 40 year-olds. My parents did that to me. And now, years later, I vaguely appreciate the sentiment but the humiliation burns me more than love ever could undo that burn.

How you convey information: Don't get into the dramatics. My mother could have won an Emmy with her flair for how my weight was basically going to kill me and how my being fat was basically going to destroy life on this planet. But, you don't need to just say, "A BMI of 34 means x, y, z" in a clinical voice either.

Stick to NOW: Don't make predictions. Don't tell your daughter she'll never get a shidduch, will die early, etc. It's just not helpful. And when she does get a shidduch and doesn't die early, she's going to think that you're full of it.

Educate Yourself: You are going to need to educate yourself about food culture, overeating, and about how "discipline" isn't going to get you where you want.
You are not dealing with "just don't take anymore chocolate chips." People who are compulsive overeaters cannot take just 5 chocolate chips! I don't know your daughter, I can't diagnose her, but she sounds a LOT like me when I was 10. You can't teach moderation, because when it comes to food, she just doesn't have that setting. While your daughter might understand it intellectually, as someone who has issues with hoarding and sneaking food, she is not going to "get it."

Provide a healthy environment: Stock your pantry with fruit and start eating whole foods that are nutrient dense. Also, you are going to have to get rid of her trigger foods - clearly, cheese and chocolate chips are triggers for her. Don't bring them into the house the same way that you wouldn't bring alcohol into the house if she was struggling with that. It may sound extreme, but not buying your dd clothes that fit is also extreme.

Boundaries: Remember: it's her body - not yours. Do not think about your family's "image" and how an overweight child will effect it. Just don't - she'll feel it and will want to rebel even more.

Here are some educational resources that IMHO are very very valuable:

www.soveya.org - a Torah approach to weight maintenance from a rabbinic couple who has been there
www.halfsizeme.com - they have a lot of stuff about maintenance.
www.pcrm.org - good information about incorporation fruits and vegetables of all colors into your diet.
http://www.kveller.com/blog/pa.....razy/
http://www.kveller.com/blog/pa.....dies/

Excellent, excellent post!

Op, you need to STOP making food such an issue to your dd. Just buy what's healthy, keep the junk out of the house, and leave her be. And for goodness sake, ditch the Splenda cookies! You are not helping anything with those, they are not a "healthier" option as they're still grain based food, it's not going to help her at all.

black sheep

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 7:32 pm

two things that struck me in your OP were the splenda cookies and the nutritionist.

sugar substitutes make eating disorders worse. please stop giving your daughter splenda cookies. you can bake cookies with agave or honey or pureed dates instead of sugar, but please no more fake sugars. also, she probably feels very deprived by eating splenda cookies. a better idea would be to not have any cookies in the house, serve fruit for desert, or no desert. and on shabbos or special occasions when you do serve desert, let her have the regular kind everyone is having.

as far as the nutritionist, just like vintage, I am very surprised that your nutritionist didn't pick up that your daughter has an eating disorder. giving you nutrition guidelines for an eating disorder is scary. I agree with vintage on this one, your daughter needs help for her compulsive overeating, and a nutritionist is not the help she needs. she needs counseling.

I am sure you have her best interests at heart, but I am afraid you have not realized what the problem is. her weight is not the problem, it is only a symptom of her problem. please seek real, professional help, and focus on her healing her from the inside, not on fixing her weight.

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 8:08 pm

I disagree with all the posters saying she needs professional help. I don't think she's necessarily a compulsive overeater just someone who is frustrated about not being able to eat what she wants and not knowing the next time she'll have access to the foods she likes. I don't think I had a major psychological problem growing up (I'm the amother whose father forced me to exercise). I think if you ignore it now she may come to terms with her need to diet on her own. If you're not overlooking her eating healthy foods and she's not writing it down for you she may very well cut her calories significantly....potentially by cutting out the healthy foods only but she will still be eating and therefore gaining less. It has to be a total and complete non issue for a significant amount of time for her to be able to come to realization on her own. And the only way it will work anyway is coming from her so try to just drop it. BTW, even though some of my posts sounded harsh I believe you really do mean well. I never held it against my parents because I knew they meant well too. That didn't stop the damage they caused though.

octopus

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 8:13 pm

black sheep wrote:

I don't think it's fair to label the dd eating disordered. Op said she thinks there are some genetics involved. I personally think genetics play a big role. However, there is a balance and op should be careful not to trigger an eating disorder in her child. It's a hard tight rope to walk especially as your child heads into puberty. Good luck.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 8:15 pm

malky800 wrote:

She does everything else right. During daylights hours, she measures her food and takes the right amount of snacks.
She takes salad when she's hungry.
She exercises on the treadmill almost every night, (or something else).
I have 1 pantry locked. It is stuffed now with the shabbos nosh, and now I have to put my mandels, and chocolate chips and , and.
I can't put my whole life in there!

I have no expertise here and I haven't read the thread. May I just say that she is just doing what everybody else around her does, which is to focus intensely on food. Indifference might have been better.

If you start with locks you are just treating food like money, like gold, like Rembrandts.

I would gradually change to a situation of no locks and no chocolate chips in the house at all, no nosh. Make decent meals, and make desserts and kugels and enjoy.

Try to forget all this art and science, meaning, stop talking about it.

Give the kid proteins. They fill you up and don't make insulin spikes.

If she needs a bit of naughty food, have a little around and don't mention it when she eats it. But she will eat the whole bag. So have small bags.

Words are your enemy here I would say, don't say one thing, don't explain.

Get her into chess. She needs to think of something else.

She will always be a big-bodied girl. Buy her pretty clothes and pretty pajamas too, and do her hair, do her hair, and make plain you think she's pretty. Cute stud earrings, when she's old enough.

I would say, never mention again: weight, size, diabetes, disease, horrors, death, scythes, grim reapers, being weird, being different, being ugly, dying, death, dismemberment, poisons, dangers in the pantry, the need to restrain yourself when you are enjoying something, or anything along those lines.

It is better to be fat than crazy.

When she gets her growth, she may surprise you and get busy with a specialist or even get surgery, and change her build. At that time she will not want to talk about it either.

There really are people who never, ever, ever, have candy in the house. Sometimes they bake cookies. But it's isn't all done for them. They have to do the work.

Sorry for speaking out of turn. I am no expert in any way.

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 9:09 pm

amother wrote:

I want to give my point of you as an over weight child.

I was slightly ober weight. Not huge but bigger tban my friends. I don't think it was a health issue but purely aesthetic.

When I was 9 my parents took me to weight watchers. They scrutinized my plate. Watched how much challa I put in my mouth. But my brothers and sisters could eat what they wanted. Do you know how unfair that sounds to a 10 yr old?! At such a young age to have to be on diet.
It made me feel less of a person, it stumped the growth of my self esteem, something that I still suffer from today. And how do you think I found comfort? Yes, through food! Its counter productive.

Imho the only way to control your childs weight is subtlety. Without saying a word. Just serving healthy food, not having snacks and encouraging exercise for everyone. It is sohurtful to be sidelined because of how you look.

In my case. At a later stage I, on my own, saw a nutritionist and made the decision to lose weight. And I did.

I think putting a 10 yr old on diet only does harm and encourage s eating disorders. To this day I am angry at my parents for how they dealt with it.

I'm sorry if its sounds harsh. Its just my experience.

I'm almost the same story only my diet started at 6 and instead of comoforting myself with food I developed anorexia in 7th grade thru college. I also still resent my parents a bit because instead of getting me help they were happy I was finally skinny. Their whole reason for my diet was cuz my older cousins were heavy and not getting any shiduch dates and they don't want my future to be like that so start me young before it's too hard. I went on birthday parties and there was nothing for me to eat (no soda no cake no pizza no bread no French fries no candy no pasta allowed) WE went to restaurants and I would just give the menu to my mom to chose for me cuz if I chose something fattening they would make comments.

My self esteem is in the rocks still till today, it even affects my marriage because my parents lead me to believe that if I wasn't pretty or skinny enough I was not deserving of love (getting married) or at least that's how my young self understood it. so if I ever do a mistake I feel like my Dh hates me.
Honestly, if she's just chubby let her be. When she hits puberty two rolls will go up to her boobs and two down to her butt her body will grow and take from what she has. If she's still heavy then, then it's time to do something. For now I'm all for healthy lifestyle but try for sure to get her to therapy to see what's going on inside of her. Urgently!

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 9:43 pm

It is impossible to sit in the corner and not think of a white horse.

The minute you have decided you will not think of a white horse, the horse must appear in your mind, as the thing you have defined as interesting, even if negatively interesting.

Yes, the kid, and her parents too, must stop thinking about food.

This honorable, and well-meaning, family has tried so hard to conquer eating and being overweight, but hasn't had success. It would be logical for them to give up, therefore. And be happy, thinking about and doing other things. Chess, exercise for fun not "health", and lots of other things. While not keeping candy in the house. Only home-made treats, and not lots and lots of those either.

There is weight loss surgery.

There is no use continuing to do what has been given a very good chance to work, and has not. Especially at the cost of so much energy and feeling.

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2014, 11:47 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I may have missed something, but has DD been to a psychiatrist and screened for depression and eating disorders?

You MUST get to the core cause of this. As many other posters have said, treating the symptoms will just make her obsess on the symptoms, and no one will ever get to the cause and cure of it.

Yes, yes, this! The root is so much more important than the symptom!

I'm the amother who said that I was a size 28 at 15 years old. For me, I was depressed. I was always shy, and my mother was pretty much emotionally abusive, the result of which was I had no self esteem at all, whatsoever (I still seriously struggle with self esteem and self worth). Since I really had no friends, I turned to food to make me feel better. It was a vicious cycle.
Once my mom finally backed off about the weight (mostly, wish she could have all the way),it took a little time, but I realized that I wasn't happy with how I looked and I decided to do something for myself. I lost 10 sizes, and today I love running and hard workout videos. I love how I feel and look after exercising. But it's something I had to do for myself, once I started to learn to love myself a little. It's been a hard journey.

Now I am NOT saying that OP is abusive and causing her dd's problems, I'm saying MY trigger was MY mother. Op's dd could have any number of triggers. I think it would be good to look into what those triggers may be to try to help your dd cope a different way.