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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Simcha Section
amother
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Wed, Nov 05 2014, 10:08 pm
Tova wrote: | Do you cover at shul? Then it would probably make sense to cover for the chuppah. I know many women that do that. As mother of the bride (mazal tov!) you will be right there with the men saying the brachos and we hold (does anyone not hold this way?) that a previously or currently married woman's hair is erva for which a davar shebikedusha can not be said in front of. So in terms of that it's respectful to cover under the chuppah but that reasoning wouldn't apply to the rest of the wedding (kabbalas panim, dancing). |
I am divorced, very right wing rav told me differently (obv ask ur own if u need ot know)... but for ur general knowledge I know my rav said that it is dat yehudit for previously married woman to cover their hair, it is therefore not in the same category of married woman's hair. the example he gave was covering the leg (ie tights)
So while I don cover my hair in general and def in front of men, I don't cover it to daven or make brachot, since I do those without tights, and I'm not makpid in front of women,
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dr. pepper
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Wed, Nov 05 2014, 10:10 pm
Oh Pink Fridge! My father quotes that all the time!
And Baruch Hashem, my parents have been amazing role models for being mevater for the sake of shalom.
They had fancy weddings, simple weddings, mixed seating, separate seating, a machateinesta without hair covered (my mom wears a sheitel), etc.
Although I do recall him saying it would be hard for him to not walk down a daughter. It was never brought up in all their wedding AFAIK.
Their biggest rule was that there should be shalom. I know I am blessed.
Greenfire, good luck deciding!
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chaos
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Wed, Nov 05 2014, 11:03 pm
I don't cover my hair in any setting. I didn't cover for BIL's or SIL's weddings either. Nobody cared.
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chani8
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:23 am
Why would a divorced woman need to cover her hair? How can that be erva, since she is now permitted to whomever she's permitted to. I don't get it. Perhaps to a cohen, she's not permitted, so for him, seeing her hair is erva???
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amother
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 2:12 am
chani8 wrote: | Why would a divorced woman need to cover her hair? How can that be erva, since she is now permitted to whomever she's permitted to. I don't get it. Perhaps to a cohen, she's not permitted, so for him, seeing her hair is erva??? |
I am divorced, very right wing rav told me differently (obv ask ur own if u need ot know)... but for ur general knowledge I know my rav said that it is dat Yehudis for previously married woman to cover their hair, it is therefore not in the same category of married woman's hair. the example he gave was covering the leg (ie tights)
So while I do cover my hair in general and def in front of men, I don't cover it to daven or make brachot, since I do those without tights, and I'm not makpid in front of women,
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grace413
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 3:51 am
greenfire wrote: |
my own daughter just wants everyone to come as they are w/o demands so that everyone is happy |
Greenie, congratulations - you have succeeded in raising a daughter with good middot.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 7:22 am
I have MO friends who never cover even at shul.
I have "drive to Orthodoc shul" friends who cover for a close simcha.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:17 am
amother wrote: | I am divorced, very right wing rav told me differently (obv ask ur own if u need ot know)... but for ur general knowledge I know my rav said that it is dat yehudit for previously married woman to cover their hair, it is therefore not in the same category of married woman's hair. the example he gave was covering the leg (ie tights)
So while I don cover my hair in general and def in front of men, I don't cover it to daven or make brachot, since I do those without tights, and I'm not makpid in front of women, |
I am pretty sure Tova was talking about the men saying devarim shebekdusha (at the chuppa), and not regarding women saying brachos in front of uncovered hair. In fact, even currently married women's hair can show while a woman says a bracha, according to my understanding.
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amother
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:45 am
Greenie, if you don't want to cover your hair for G-d, but still wondering if you should cover, you can wear a cool looking thing that reflects your cool personality as a fashion statement. Many people who wear things on their head do it for fashion purposes. I'm sure your daughter couldn't care less, but it will be sad for her that people talk about her OTD mom, because it's just not true..
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amother
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:51 am
Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | I am pretty sure Tova was talking about the men saying devarim shebekdusha (at the chuppa), and not regarding women saying brachos in front of uncovered hair. In fact, even currently married women's hair can show while a woman says a bracha, according to my understanding. |
Would they do it if she wasn't wearing tights? (Ie leg showing) cuz that would be the comparison.
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sima
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 11:38 am
I all just depends on the circles that your daughter is marrying into and the individual personalities of those who will be there. If she is marrying into chassidish, then yes it would probably be better if you wore something for the chupah, unless they are completely cool and open minded. If she is marrying dati leumi or etc. then I don't think you'd have a problem, although they may think it would be good. Just have a chat with your daughter and ask her how she really feels about this, feels about the ppl who will be there and whether it would be a wise move for shalom sake or if it doesn't matter.
Ha-shem is more understanding than ppl can be
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tovli toraspicha
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 11:57 am
Either way, the mesader kedushin and those making the brachos do not have to look at the mother of the bride when reciting the brachos. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen the person making the bracha look at the mother of the bride. Maybe at the chosson and kallah, or the fathers...
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Odelyah
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 12:29 pm
amother wrote: | Greenie, if you don't want to cover your hair for G-d, but still wondering if you should cover, you can wear a cool looking thing that reflects your cool personality as a fashion statement. Many people who wear things on their head do it for fashion purposes. I'm sure your daughter couldn't care less, but it will be sad for her that people talk about her OTD mom, because it's just not true.. |
I'm sorry but this is really disturbing. A. Most people know that there are lenient opinions that allow a divorced woman to uncover her hair, and that doing so definitely doesn't make her OTD. B. There are plenty of Orthodox married women who don't cover their hair, who would be justifiably offended at being refered to as OTD (!), and C. Loshon Hara and Motzei Shaim Ra are definitely serious Torah prohibitions so the kind of people who would speak like that are pathetic hypocrites who are not worthy of consideration in this matter, only pity.
(But that being said I still think it's likely that there are other valid reasons for Greenfire to wear a hat at her daughter's wedding, as I mentioned in my earlier post.)
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Kitten
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 12:45 pm
Maybe wear something just for the chuppah? Some chassidishe women wear a tichel over their sheitel for the chuppah. You could do something similar, like wearing a big loose tichel over your hair that won't mess up your hairstyle.
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greenfire
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:13 pm
amother wrote: | Greenie, if you don't want to cover your hair for G-d, but still wondering if you should cover, you can wear a cool looking thing that reflects your cool personality as a fashion statement. Many people who wear things on their head do it for fashion purposes. I'm sure your daughter couldn't care less, but it will be sad for her that people talk about her OTD mom, because it's just not true.. |
I take offense to this post 3-fold
1] why are you 'amother'
2] how dare you associate not covering one's hair to being off-the-derech
3] my spiritual relationship is NOT about a bunch of yentas - it is solely between god & myself !!!
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greenfire
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:15 pm
I was actually thinking of getting a talis ~ that ought to cover a lot of ground
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marina
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:25 pm
greenfire wrote: | by my own wedding - some decades ago - I requested my mother wear a hat
I've rebelled since getting divorced & covering my hair is like wearing a girdle - it's going to make me b!tchy
my own daughter just wants everyone to come as they are w/o demands so that everyone is happy |
Who cares? It's one day. If your in-laws would prefer it or whoever, what's the issue? For one day?
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amother
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:34 pm
greenfire wrote: | I take offense to this post 3-fold
1] why are you 'amother'
2] how dare you associate not covering one's hair to being off-the-derech
3] my spiritual relationship is NOT about a bunch of yentas - it is solely between god & myself !!! |
You ask for imamother's opinions, you have them, like them or not. I really didn't want to offend you and I'm sorry if I did.
To answer you.
1] I am amother because I am talking about my own personal experience.
2] My mother stopped covering her hair and is now labelled OTD, which she is not.
3] You answered your own question: don't cover your hair. You have halachic opinions backing your decision. If you do it for other people it means you do care what a bunch of yentas think.
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rachel91
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 1:43 pm
My grandma and aunt are both not frum, whenever my grandma visits my mum, she always asks her to cover her hair, all the time.
I don't. At my wedding she wore a wig, and my aunt didn't cover her hair, since she's been married to a non Jew.
I wouldn't have minded, if my grandma wouldn't cover at my wedding, but my mum insisted. It's also rather common to cover in our community.
Greenfire, think about it: if everybody's fine with you going uncovered- great! If the in-laws, or the chosson will be embarrassed, not understanding, irritated, or whatever by you not covering, I would do it. Just for the sake of peace.
Don't think about what other, random strangers will say, only if it could seriously jeopardize your daughters future, which I doubt.
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Barbara
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Thu, Nov 06 2014, 2:03 pm
marina wrote: | Who cares? It's one day. If your in-laws would prefer it or whoever, what's the issue? For one day? |
I'm all in the spirit of compromise, particularly in cases where its no skin off your nose. I even suggested that Greenie's DD consider wearing a traditional wedding dress to the chupah, to make her in-laws happy, then change into something that's more "her" for the reception, a la David Turtera's use of a "change out dress."
But sometimes, it does matter.
I have a friend, let's call her Sarah, who went through an ugly and bitter divorce. Think about everything bad an ex-husband could do, and he did worse. Sarah's daughter will be getting married, please Hashem, some time in the not too distant future, and Sarah will not be covering her hair. For her, its not a small thing. Its a reminder of SlimeBagEx, and would adversely impact her enjoyment of the day.
Now, Greenie isn't Sarah. I don't know her story, and certainly don't think that anyone who does should post it here. But if it bothers her that much, and her daughter isn't requesting it, then I don't think she should do it. (If it was meaningful to her DD, I would think differently. DD Rules. Its her wedding.)
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